This is amazing work happening in the Fediverse - the all inclusivefree social network for the globe.
This is amazing work happening in the Fediverse - the all inclusive free social network for the globe. If you haven't joined us yet, one way is to check the pinned post at the top of my profile before G+ goes away so you can connect with others. Then feel free to checkout the entire Fediverse without losing connections :)
https://github.com/hoergen/besser-der-podcast/tree/master/fediverse
https://github.com/hoergen/besser-der-podcast/tree/master/fediverse
Shelenn Ayres Nice resource. Look at Friendica, Hubzilla, and ActivityPub go!
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres A couple of corrections: PixelFed uses ActivityPub, WordPress speaks Diaspora*
ReplyDeletes/DRFN/DFRN/ and I don't think Hubzilla supports it.
ReplyDeleteWikipedia's chart
ReplyDeleteen.wikipedia.org - Fediverse
And, here we see the exact problems that I have with most of the fediverse. This summary is all about interoperability and standards and high-level meaningless features. Most of that is completely uninteresting to the average person.
ReplyDeleteHere are some features that I care about that are not on their list:
1. Fully supports native accessibility on mobile devices (at least iOS and Android).
2. Allows posts of arbitrary length.
3. Allows editing of posts and comments.
4. Supports multiple levels of post visibility, from fully public to completely private.
Brian Holt Hawthorne Mobile access is available in your browser. Mobile specific apps take additional developer time. I don't believe 2,3,4 are issues.
ReplyDeletehttps://friendi.ca/resources/use-it/mobile-clients/
https://framagit.org/disroot/AndHub
Brian Holt Hawthorne I maintain a guide to the Fediverse that I believe answers most of your questions. I have written it from a users perspective and describe a number of typical use cases. From the top of my head Friendica comes closest to your needs with the exception of a native iOS app I believe.
ReplyDeletehomehack.nl - Guide for GPlus refugees to choose a new social network in the Fediverse
Mike Noyes What the creator needs is that feedback via the github link. ;)
ReplyDeleteEric Buijs A worthy top post ;)
ReplyDeleteDiaspora has RSS/Atom, so there's at least one "x" missing.
ReplyDeleteJürgen Christoffel Follow the github link to report the issue :)
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what he means by url sharing since Friendica has that within posts via tag or simply pasting as well as public urls for posts and profiles. I also notice he did not include a column for editing which is a big difference between Friendica where you can edit posts and Diaspora where you cannot. I will catch him on Friendica to provide the feedback.
ReplyDeleteEric Buijs Thanks. I'll have to give it another try. Hmm. Here's another problem with most of the fediverse.
ReplyDelete1. Start on my laptop. Google 'friendica'. First link is https://friendi.ca/. Go there.
2. Click the "Try it" button.
3. End up on https://dir.friendica.social/servers
4. Scratch my head trying to figure out which server to use. The first page is mostly German or Czech.
5. Try typing USA into search box at the top of the page.
6. Get back a list of random users.
7. Click on the Public Servers link on the results page.
8. End up back on https://dir.friendica.social/servers
9. Most people would have given up by now.
10. Page through trying to find a server in the USA. Can't find one, so try a Canadian one instead: social.isurf.ca
11. Click on Visit Server.
12. Setup account. Login. Click on the Community button.
13. Ugh. Links are low-contrast cyan on white. Type size is smaller than my Chrome default. Some text appears to be a dark gray on a lighter gray back ground. My eyes hurt already.
Okay. Let's try this on mobile.
1. Login.
2. Ugh. More unreadable light cyan on white.
3. Click on community button.
4. Type size is teeny tiny.
So, no. This is not what I want. friendica, like most of the fediverse, seems to have no concept of accessibility and just wildly sets whatever type sizes and colors it wants, rather than letting the user's browser settings rule. I've been fighting this approach ever since the ability was added to HTML, even before CSS. It is wrong, and broken.
Oddly enough, most commercial sites seem to get this right nowadays, but for some reason, the open source community seems to be plagued by this sort of problem.
I know, I know. Next someone will tell me, "but you can fix that! Just install this extension or submit a github request or change the code yourself."
And that's the problem with the fediverse.
It's not that friendica doesn't have a native iOS app. It's that it was written by a bunch of coders who never even thought about accessibility issues, or considered them as an after thought.
Look, social media have one job: make it easy for people to interact online. The first part of that is to make it easy. The fediverse falls down on that, being seduced by the excitement of global network interoperability, and forgetting its first job. Make it easy for people to interact online.
friendi.ca - friendica – A Decentralized Social Network
Brian Holt Hawthorne Even commercial sites fall down when it comes to creating accessible sites.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/
w3.org - Home
Brian Holt Hawthorne You may have better luck finding a server you are interested in using...
ReplyDeletemaybe?
https://social.isurf.ca/
the-federation.info - The Federation - a statistics hub
Brian Holt Hawthorne My bad that I suggested Friendica to you I should have realized that most people just want an easy experience. Unfortunately only one or maybe two options in the Fediverse can compete with G+ in that respect. In my opinion Mastodon has by far the best UX in the Fediverse (followed a Diaspora*). But even Mastodon will force you to make a tough choice. Which server that will be your new home. This choice is inherent to the Fediverse and people should take time to investigate this.
ReplyDeleteI understand that the Fediverse is not for everyone but I do like to stress that the primary function of the Fediverse social interaction can be as good and easy as G+. Last October I found a new home on Fosstodon, a Mastodon server, and after all these months I can honestly tell you that the communty and experience is every bit as good as it was on G+ albeit with a very different interface.
Finally I wish you (and everyone else here) good luck in finding a new home.
Eric Buijs I really want to like the fediverse. Mastodon seems to be a great twitter replacement, but its limitation on post length, like Twitter’s, keeps me from feeling comfortable there as my primary social home.
ReplyDeleteSo far, I haven’t found a place, although I have accounts everywhere.
Most likely, I will just stop using social media once everyone else disappears from Google+.
So far what I've seen and experienced with the Fediverse are a lot of interesting and ambitious projects from groups and individuals that work hard to create their version of a distributed and open social network.
ReplyDeleteIt's, unfortunately for a huge swath of potential users/consumers, a hot mess.
Interpretation of open protocols, different level of support between instances and networks, and as you already point out; all this is on a technical level.
Some projects seem more polished on the front end of things than others, but there's so many networks that are still at the technical implementation level.
All this is going to take not only effort for a presumed user figuring out what the whole Fediverse consist of in terms of the different places to go and sign up, but then another huge chunk of time will have to go into visiting every place to see if their onboarding isn't going to stop you in the tracks.
I'm a total nerd, so I can deal with the pain, if I really want to be a part of something. But I'm sure about 99% of the world won't.
So tl;dr (but now you've read all of it, so I guess it's kinda moot, eh? 🙂) Brian Holt Hawthorne I agree with you in many ways.
Eric Buijs wrote: Which server that will be your new home. This choice is inherent to the Fediverse and people should take time to investigate this.
ReplyDeleteEric, Hubzilla has nomadic identities, but this requires Zot. I hope there is a way to implement this in ActivityPub.
Nomadic identity means true ownership of online identity. With Hubzilla, you don't have an account on a server, you own an identity that you can take with you across the grid. You can clone a channel across multiple hubs for resilience against network failures or censorship, or you can completely move a channel from one hub to another, taking your data and connections with you.
zotlabs.org - | Hubzilla -
Jonas Hellström My impression is that the majority of the folks working on open source fediverse projects are people enamored by solving the really hard problems of distributed, replicated, interconnected communication systems. Unfortunately, because UX is a much less sexy area, it seems to get short shrift and is almost an afterthought.
ReplyDeleteAnd the idea that one can have a social network without first creating fully developed native apps on at least the two largest mobile platforms is indicative of this attitude.
It’s not like writing iOS and Android apps is particularly difficult, it just isn’t seen as a priority.
The result is that the fediverse may be a federated network, but it is not a federated social network, as it fails at the basic social part of it.
Even Tootdon (iOS Mastodon client) fails at supporting basic accessibility features like dynamic text.
Jonas Hellström and Brian Holt Hawthorne ActivityPub is changing this. Walled gardens will vanish.
ReplyDeleteBrian Holt Hawthorne I have to disagree a bit on the UX focus. Friendica UI is fully customizable by the user for a great UX. Changes made by developers in the most recent release and current release candidate are almost all focused on improving the UX. What you have to do is go to settings, select display, then choose and customize a theme.
ReplyDeleteMike Noyes Not sure what you “this” refers to. If walled gardens are replaced by a technologically marvelous system of interconnected sewers, I’m afraid I’d rather have the garden, walled or not.
ReplyDeleteI see no evidence that ActivityPub (”The ActivityPub protocol is a decentralized social networking protocol”) will in any way make federated networks more accessible, pleasant, or otherwise garden-like.
Where are the open source native mobile apps that will support any of these fediverse sites while fully implementing accessibility and ease of use features?
Brian Holt Hawthorne It makes them more interoperable as with any industry standards unlike other ad hoc systems that do not collaborate via standards. Walled gardens can shut down anytime for any reason or be sold nullifying any terms of service protecting user data. There are huge advantages for users in a decentralized Fediverse. You need to take the time to learn the UI's to make a positive assessment of any kind. If your goal is to maintain a negative perspective subject to the whims of corporate single authorities, walled gardens might be the place for you.
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jRkoC538WpRbNF2gk-kJVIWI6xeGeGxWM4i1W1EYm3xf30y16-Rb3H7GLPLjiPqvDAldBe5X7wBKqYwIrsSV3CL941nJrAyH8Aks=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BQjRHzPiPPwqDWnIk0A7WgKdk7U8Hz5Ma9odfrn8bPPL5I4BYpNUnMoCZuKnpC832OEtFORrrHNhEyGTB9rfBdn3VANKNzEVKD78=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fTu98EaafnIwc7mno6EgaUtnERvYRwZXweeHaDgicxaLcBkv1CNAUaz6octyMCaBgnSYSjPfUmNas5PTVJkuQu3fpjgHV7WP98dI=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0jmLZvKEyZmOdkOmIHWpQ-Gj1nxicSp3_CBuS97quqG5dgoUELdJDxaLDIkZ8U2ysSVhAtPl1-X0EIzgTb9yB9LBH4wURP7zmjnE=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pH9sGHJHPzk0CnDrWQxbr1AFM5V_ck1HZF25QRYjcP5qgNC6pFZZXQZr2PwnkBuYQj-cEoTfIfHecozSbEN3fmCfJ8xxVqCz8GqM=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yLdcqGS9NiON-drLtQZOY4W2e6DUIdriPWr64tvvlOX0nQu0q-vpdOcFgyY39SNLn_cDA9aiVBsaclg0Y540yYDhdXUgaY5TH-wb=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UMy8cFRQd3d8uHLmoLt0UgHyL343zrJ_wdDtoKGXt90nrPsPMELzYPd0ohcDeT4biE8pRHHsqYGszxVn3EEsisYdHvZCUeSLaV-g=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nzJEntlZe5QuuQd8FSlOIL4sGUKIlrk9ksEHpY-boXuiuEQs-ceQfpOpVTPamSVlho1Tg7BY4N-s2adytzeUdX6ZSHz1Dzi8NoKF=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iaQ0EUg_AgYz9N4mNCl_C2OsVbMUqNzTbFX69QuqvEIYnz7Cp-r6bNkfI_pOACyAXMa_nCu0f_QgIMu5SX39gy1AHo2DXuWHmT1s=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0MpP-9oAw9WB_0qR9B7ODiBn-hxPQc7swfGFKAtVLV5asbY7uY3dA0WqwBaHscQhGtLCyB7RI-pWQQm9ym9YlFoyy9ha2YlTt0gw=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rN1Wskl_dPFBY8X04RCBkgTj2p_4C43qowho2-LDJJPNEkQR5iL_tFKvZaPI2A9OWgMwlE8u6ll6GU6qFKsn_V7ZEUtOl32D9SoV=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sm4xILpN6ljtPI6W4_VKHEAslEr8xYEB97vJGpD98PZBmN9Bz4YuVguFhLsoBJfMTWebcqoUvvXmVkMPKQj_apcNseYRlbva4sjE=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BoOL_67XTud0QC7Z2K7XVtxsp0iQj1Xmb7FrsEriXpVTgUX3ZF27qU_w2E2X0D2ouTION5Tu7VbD2t8Yt-TkofOEfwrc_dm8QVlA=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/esvgMEF0IHsx96O-Z6KzJne21K1Uoq-FVz0WV4uE4vdDkUSRSMkU9EiS3bLN-SOQebgyx8C8y4YKBJFumeCBflHQhMOOD43ZeTyt=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iFdHXEZoC9mcn9bJCN00E_4wyQjowCPfi9Y1GmEaGbLnF-rt9JxV3oxn6NXhi7njkrbN9Zykzw9AHeR7-3aKVvckkSTrin43KSzB=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/caVsj8cd0V5gxVcyLDeOS64gmDeMGs21IUf0eW8Jo9i6gpr_4C79aRcIvB8X0K7WgeCFOHNhdamWNpXM51vVNtbg7U3sXOAJIVuU=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4WDeqQWkG_M9bmBhbSKZwHy8axT1yXSSz2n4HN3d4M_pP5IwwnuiBJnqY9YzO_st1O3xxF1OMqNGGlVe91eyYNG7Ricdkpl-jKGi=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gjpunzvDcHjvcqGr5cjJvojWWqbBFRwcgsNnn2uChmAiaPMiUHdEWEfnHfcfpccbtUdAs86pTM623DdvnqLDlw1u6RlVGlZoLe4N=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2PwsLrtVPq7UJa3KSMSu3r3QKxz1EgFL_dtAAeOXfpTLa6K5ZHc1e2seHtcK10Gr174ks-yGIGslGz4ZC_3UG3WIEgkw939DTyCX=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres I just went to settings in Friendica. There is no “Display” listed.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FhYe91QOVFEWGQ7hT5jWYqK0qvuOTqMcdLIR13FHQS_KW4boI0OpRkk9Yr-ezLz_pkLNI6ommvfXSQ9LbBtG6XtOwikcQfOCFqeY=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xW6Mj2aoU0sLbRJn9A91s9xmH2vaD4lia5Zg0kx_IpfTGsMi-fjL2uB5RN4OPvNETNKhw5qph1DoYtWg6k4e0cELzO7TuAMzA7i5=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LnjQVCnDU07cpYDELsZcC8q-ffsIIcKmsLMgYHjppDBFJkLegVCSk5RSvTZz7tWsVHHfYJ9Gq61Hejw4lNg07YhfYHuN4T-pqPXR=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8Ei8luSh8BmmbEXUeQjSgqz1JqIe8uz7RhFi3_hFRobvYXsrcYANbXrDF2YzJKQmNB0ojYOXF8lwjQbj6Z2H925ypKUjHaKXvlZm=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IHciXg4tDtajXFUJJipXP1KzSrgGKwdgY8Pyj9B8lcf8oQjQ0xuBGORmy86nTzcGBIGEdJpRXRs5dlRYANeQaXHQJpsYCOz2uS7P=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jGVe67swU9qDMvWdY8bkCM7dlnTXmimjVqkdpCKKpEFbycgNSX9DRBVnTgvMaPzIBbM4ht1s1c3z535dKrT1ZHXCbyo2A_9i2Dcq=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/US-QgHf5Bcm2y0SsjSoihSSKp0L1u5RvZQjq0M0ya7uDgQtJIxmHuAvCIj0H85yXpCRkwvpPELVnER5CVWEndjsL1LzRuSZijdbT=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0BpBeBvZjOL448d6nDIhReD32ds-vyHbNIKyOEnhUI-wZgNKv8YXjnvuI2Om-p77hsxRfLGyzvOGTn7kvkJfAQXfXaoY4WimAptg=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4Bqw4vRgtyrV6sbrZpO2MJ2Bl-SmqkbQhmf6BDsx9QTHAVYEUU14UM6UGUL7_Pqf0aB-Wlkl2_17EAcmYQ36O_EIhobBnHOmhZw8=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CDfbqSczGFjXp1xGopdCmn-weDbK6FWpYZvAgrbLPvM_BiQAQF9BiprmEXldJAN2o6s7v23A3D8aRKMDp2pm0pRpyMBucIPiJdJI=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gcIZOig3HlNEBKUTaEFNfj8dlMHWokDbiRh6avGdjwj7OBDUoDEKHcvB2g55rnMBI_LBXAYM07q8WctF01D8vwIb3kMobyfyai0=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sSEYqUJ1x47XBrWh3oLjMgk0ErpDc5fdFGKDnPdvjy67NEq9lfudYFDZRyaOTSE3gDg0izs163RNWawxkeIeltYhiLZH7N87cQKy=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gIen3_QDIHbTdHs-H-hS0CCwHqTSpmHfUinprPnQeQfFUXZq-PVlBrLuULI6ou5EYKYdxq51dvzWoplV6sWy0zOqfrljZr8_bAfB=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g_5h3md3s6oxRWpzP2LnOwYLl3QENdCUmngh2OKNE-5owg0-Ij1lrtNE7DU3mxt-Cml_L9kjjT-oz1MC3Fe4Pyt98Cn0YksytiDJ=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/A5Y44xRh5CozyAIjqeWetGHeyWI5Lk10HL2_MPepJP4H5a1M2zMG4k19fvS2406C1j76rXSON0Z-dbkaglsFcLfbiWD5a0HirsNi=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RpWjOQfGe2LQ6yRXR9xppAfHqOAw_zwBx2qFjEXkWkfcoodKU9GJLjuqX2ynYGhsSvPlrRSu_PLht6MFG7n6yLX_0JULWFoy9Sxn=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gXuUc71yUkMGDFZqmAczf0WZ3luk1bpktEx2Sr5CpPPTuMVjLgw6z8ipTrLAIY4INrCAwliw1quCIABmb7HJYg9vBMuoBrnqCUWr=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OQp_Ngb6D_nGMipgBIGPGaQk3hHYOA9J-74q_owolc-6uJN6XIu1SVOqbxIMmLCcgdHA7J6uL7UspGR66utrrGgs8wnCQhWbLeFq=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dL2FCF3orp3EfQ-OI_OsH--IYzGZsj96Himr8psVIfCf3HEpuSyeQfzW-OasZqfd8llVyQtV4P54V7DSJrGwL3T0hs5kYK4Zb-Xw=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PD1Ykf8ktlWIszx8rsF1WStMq-FT7kuW77viw3If7_QLnm1afN3NXBRL-xeAADgVyECZ7m7tjQRGT3eIJOSHth7qzaBz7NG8c7gm=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Oh, I see. There are TWO Settings menus, and only one of them has a Display section. How intuitive.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/t5BPhmf1cgOybesZqkNlEv-jI7FfcDe8zIvRgAIEmi-werJspkVJi1jTaFIGnNiWJ36rn3YJ6wtU4vNlSy77ArpH-0QIvJ_zsD4n=s0
ReplyDeleteBrian Holt Hawthorne obviously you don't have the full settings screen open using a mobile device if that is all you see. I am not a mobile user but I believe you are missing the pulldown menu that shows the left hand menu for settings.
ReplyDeleteBrian Holt Hawthorne browser view for full systems show them both at the same time.
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ozt2jaIqQ_mh1Gpk9c9i3U9OxUYjKUv79o-13TUb5eh0WtPokypWAdIV3Jk4zoceNDc9wnqMSS316FritEgtiCLQeVIt3ZlI64I-=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rDyBg97mPo8InDmP2Ns_NhScAYIxhYNoYEP-aPEiy7mfW7lKsKO8D0psMVefRNOZ0eVxMNIUz6Kiw7uy-5UpH1PGDANaTheIlaN8=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jPoNn6F9dRB9xJfzNSiE-FHZ_UCXU2OEiKZBumXrAi9CQXVLbpyZScFqOVsSYRx51scDetn-oOLvNt67n1oq_f6g6bpIa8BPHisF=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MROb7ejANoejoUlh6oxtjuGjdrAuGrAua6DYuJZiOjC04BkfOJiNsbIzkYMuP0F1SJa19OZs7FkYwL5iDO-87HsF6j4gVBUWoWCR=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/63ZaXZtLCBmVidp3wumY9QQWy_AekEIK7ea1mGMZp3S8VrKbRHy_8tyqYLnfpTog-2nyV5A_2Y6LqsNLD0M0Ke2YUmM_OHZMHXGl=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LMDAJxtunFbLvq2EmilXq1PdzLbVcH0gIPccXeyTvvtKQGKfwjBQp-eTdTtnIsO0DS82kGr-Mit7ygfphk1I3Yh2GOWYheOIFhyo=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yDKYgQzWAqXYpYPfwiboEzRNJK0gzi5jpxFZXQNpHomjXDCKIRmdPnm3YLuIsTf91HzilrhZf6EQikYoMj7MSc_-PBdbt4ZcE7tV=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Q8-BTYGidI3JQsj-gWkop79k0ZOq2L1qsrielU2pFk6rqoaV-lafS-dzDEe8zkbRyrcOgAVSVeph6IXO1J_I0nebYCM-BZE0y8Fw=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sJY0H3_08XiM6O12TbyBassJSXxtkXj3DmRyuMwYg4Hdj7itVA3Wk1v9wOf9VxtVyDEhNNVFCnD9xBS7U4zC_3KcTYdxA1hG2QZw=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IHPozlLVd5Cj4PRLGcUQm1-6-0I4Qsu5fkJQOMvIeJu-b4TFcseox6YRXS_DcxSpgbEMclTJJysD-ZcwEMU5sXjYsOH5V5vB8QEe=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AlDiKOglWoXpwaZN10Y9n5tedar3oORIc6Eebe-yUM8VSIEeFtzO_NVe9DFZlnrwEeYGRzszkWt_dzLgCJkHlGSuBiTQT0sneJYZ=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/egORx3SnFK6mnR7syx9bCoe-C7C616HfAuvoKo8klQzrJ3eKkzcvBWBMzY2i-Qd0g1vDVLhyDEfw6Y9uzGu3f2XbH2AOsqyTTdBM=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZD15pJy8mZ2UNtC0iyO_zFAIqY5pMkAr59YWxKTJfjRDwcRzXD3uPXX4ZhI_gWzB56ErGPSI0RoARmC-XakWyQGy_iOhOrquSXa1=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CVaxGX0cH1a45eGlWY29ICNaLIYjFochakAkqr006e_ezpBhi7YL3LfypoDdzVF281E0cdiFErrKscVFdWqvrQhuSyGGXyzqJVaq=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VEUw_UxViEhIOW0OwwOveiJKoqgh1_VmZLaySSsB4UIe1TRQOBAD9hov62tTrCPvNbU4Op0qnmdFlCZ7qqJ-XQpZHt9BLQt2d_Gx=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uh4lMGPWVxVmH0II71prtDiObhHwPlHDw34rDhFvGW7C6XlQ0wGLFvI1xXvj9mxygQbC8dlbpk0IHsON0gOwkmJSZ6RFu407HRVH=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UehaU0CtQO2t1C8V06GPv-qpjbewfuxbz-HDBtX8c624h1X2wL3R7BwLUKL64AfuxTtogVDMn961RNX4My5o4usi4VpkK9fYNULr=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YMrUaCg6Thc6jDCJ7KeSOuIaHOBbTtAjP9J-TK4Ma2BmWG7nKue7GSBS90EtKAEZ7QBfOX3M1TY9Vf9p-dA2I24kPglw0K_kt5U_=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/slA8OeBMZ99QEQjrjtOsHlxf_Hh_zzR-xA3EnWvZ3o8Gh1ue-_6booppifcFPnLvaNi5BmRdhvSambw6cM1if41dEllpuRFW1OFs=s0
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres So, I just tried to find a theme that would let actually read anything on my phone. There is no type size setting anywhere. Everything I tried just made it worse and worse, until I ended up with this disaster of 3 point type.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xC7xlpsP1Tf_NWWGvmbtWvNCem2tUJ2XPM4CVcRVUda4iwi4rD0xdFCWYRpOLk80gzzBkL5MSXNS3an3BNOV76ricncICB0ecs6h=s0
ReplyDeleteBrian Holt Hawthorne small screen has disadvantages no dev can fix but there are some mobile clients you can try
ReplyDeleteOkay. I managed to get back to the default theme and managed to change my link color to black instead of cyan and the background to white instead of gray. But still no way of changing the type size, let alone tell it to just use the browser default type size.
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres And yet, I have had no problems using Google+ or twitter on my small screens for the last decade. That’s my point. Social networks live primarily on mobile devices. If a system doesn’t make it easy for mobile users, it isn’t a social network. It may be something else interesting and useful, but it isn’t a social network.
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Searching the App Store finds no apps for Friendica.
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres "small screens has disadvantages no dev can fix".
ReplyDeleteCould you elaborate just a bit on this, just for clarification. It's such a wide net of a statement that I just want to know if you mean a specific area or generally.
Brian Holt Hawthorne I recall lots of complaints about the Google+ mobile app.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I remember when people said similar things about open source and linux. Look how that turned out. Even Microsoft and Apple had to adapt.
Mike Noyes Yes. Many complaints. But at least they had one pretty much from the beginning, and they listened to the complaints and eventually made it just about perfect (just in time to cancel it). It even supports iOS accessibility features like dynamic text. So far, the only native iOS app I have found for any fediverse service is Tootdon for Mastodon. It isn’t bad, but it doesn’t support accessibility features like dynamic text.
ReplyDeleteMike Noyes As for Microsoft and Apple adapting, that is all back end stuff. Open source on the desktop is still horrible when it comes to the user experience.
ReplyDeleteJonas Hellström The Friendica devs did not design for mobile. There are apps designed for them but there will never be equivalent user experiences on all devices. This is not under control of the full application development.
ReplyDeleteBrian Holt Hawthorne The list of known mobile applications that work with Friendica are on the developer site as a courtesy but they are not developed by the core dev team.
Here is abbreviated list of features
friendi.ca - Features – friendica
Here is the list of mobile clients
https://friendi.ca/resources/use-it/mobile-clients/
Signed up for a Hubzilla account, but ended up on the "start here" server since trying to find the right hub/pod was difficult due to very few being in the USA or English as the language. I'm not giving up trying to figure it out yet, but I don't have the time to use a fine tooth comb on it when other fediverse offerings are less confusing (Diaspora and Mastodon seem to have a bit better of an experience in finding the right spot to go). I had a similarly confusing experience with Friendica that I do with Hubzilla in that they don't feel intuitive to get started on for me.
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres Yes. No iOS apps.
ReplyDelete“The Friendica devs did not design for mobile.”
I think that is exactly the point I have been trying to make. The same can be said for almost every fediverse instance I have experimented with.
Brian Holt Hawthorne wrote: Open source on the desktop is still horrible when it comes to the user experience.
ReplyDeleteBrian, I use Gnome daily. Also, every Android user is using linux. Apple OSX is just FreeBSD taken private closed source.
Don McCollough Choose the application you feel comfortable with. That's an advantage of open source. You can still interact with people using other software through ActivityPub/Diaspora*.
ReplyDeleteIf you're still interested in Hubzilla...
https://project.hubzilla.org/help/en/tutorials/personal_channel
project.hubzilla.org - Help: About
Brian Holt Hawthorne It does not mean the devs have abandoned support for iOS. A quick search reveals the opposite. github.com - [frio] iOS Add to Home Screen issues · Issue #2800 · friendica/friendica
ReplyDeleteYou are free to succumb to the whims of walled gardens or you are free to support people working for free to help other people have a social network they can trust with responsive dev teams. Your choice to be a part of the solution ;)
Don McCollough I found Friendica quite easy to sign up and login immediately. You have to ignore the password field entry on registration (it is not captured). Check email spam folder etc for credentials from the server. Use given password then change after login. No waiting to post etc. Tips on getting started on my G+ profile top pinned post.
ReplyDeletetip: be part of the solution be reporting issues to the appropriate dev teams.
ReplyDeleteGiving Friendica another try using the social.isurf.ca pod. So far it's a tad better than last time, but I think that's due to the server I'm on.
ReplyDeleteDon McCollough social.isurf.ca - iSurf Social (home) just changed to the latest RC a couple of days ago... but there are improvements under test... the tips on my G+ profile plus the new member page on isurf should answer most questions
ReplyDeleteShelenn Ayres
ReplyDelete"The Friendica devs did not design for mobile. There are apps designed for them but there will never be equivalent user experiences on all devices. This is not under control of the full application development."
Not knowing their official stance and statement about mobile, they did some design for mobile as the site that Brian linked to has a responsive behaviour.
And this is a problem; there's some stuff in there, but they're not committing to follow through. I can understand a very high number of users being more than a little confused when they visit this place to see what it's like, and they're hit with something like what Brian Holt Hawthorne stepped through.
Personally, if I were to have been served a desktop only layout and none of the responsive UI that's there now, I'd at least not have made any assumption that there was a mobile vision somewhere in the mix, but that it's just not ready yet.
Better yet, if they'd stated this upfront, e.g. "While we do have a responsive UI, it is not complete, so we really do recommend you using a desktop instead." users wouldn't have to spend additional time on understanding what kind of experience they're getting themselves into.
Shelenn Ayres “You are free to succumb to the whims of walled gardens or...” And ultimately, it is this holier than thou attitude that irks me the most. Whether it is MeWe’s “Facebook is evil. We are good” or the fediverse’s “Sure, you could decide to be a part of an evil corporate world, or you could come join us in freedom” I am really tired of people constantly injecting ideology into the conversation.
ReplyDeleteEnding participation in this increasingly off-topic thread. Bye.
Jonas Hellström A lot of intent and meaning is lost in a text only conversation because we do not have body language and voice inflection.
ReplyDeleteIn a nutshell, for those who do not understand how open source software development and participation works, reporting a bug to the wrong development team is a not going to yield the results the reporter wants.
The mobile apps known to work are listed on the core dev team's website as a courtesy. I've seen very responsive support from the core devs with users AND app devs. But the core devs are not the app devs and vice versa. They work together best they can. But when users constantly complain expressing their frustration in a place that does not reach the appropriate dev teams who can do something about their complaints, they become part of the problem.
For those who do not understand the vast majority of development in open source is done by volunteers who have limited time: If you want something done (bug fix or new feature), you need to report the issue or request the feature using the system put in place by the appropriate dev team. If you want something done faster, put together a bounty to pay for development - this allows devs who often are self-employed to make time. Either way, this is how people can be part of the solution.
With regards to walled gardens, there are two types: corporate owned and non-corporate owned. The majority of these are closed source but a few are open source. But both are walled gardens meaning users in these walled gardens cannot communicate with users in others. Also, both can shut off tomorrow without regard to their users because they are run by single authorities. Finally, both can delete any user against their will. This is because they are a single authority causing that person to start all over and have full loss of their user generated content prior to this time. I believe user generated content belongs to the user and should not be appropriated by online service providers.
Corporate owned walled gardens like G+ appropriate and profit from user generated content and behavior much like FB and others. Some online service providers are engaging in dishonest and corrupt business practices. This is facilitated by closed source walled gardens even if not all are corporate owned and dishonest. As a user, I will no longer succumb or participate or promote this exploitation and appropriation of user generated content.
Decentralized open source social media by design puts the power in the hands of the users to help prevent appropriation and exploitation of user generated content. Will it happen in the Fediverse? Possibly but not near as likely. Why? Because a user owns their content and controls their content. Users have the power to control their user experience and their existence. In a decentralized open source system, as long as at least two nodes exist, users exist and no one can ever delete you. While some may choose to signup on a node someone else runs, they still have the option to host themselves if push comes to shove.
When we remove the incentive to be corrupt, we all become less corrupt.
Shelenn Ayres Unless SCOTUS changes their position third-party doctrine, we will all need to self-host. The proliferation of 5G fixed wireless will finally make this possible for the masses.
ReplyDeleteBrian Holt Hawthorne You have to expect some ideology with open source. It started with an elegant hack of copyright law.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, Shelenn Ayres tried to help you. If you're not happy with the current open source offerings, there are other options for you to use. I wish you the best of luck on whichever platform you decide to use. Thanks for the conversation on Google+.
Brian Holt Hawthorne I tried to help you with many options (at no charge for my time like most of us who are all about community). I don't use a small screen device to participate in social media as a standard practice.
ReplyDeleteBut, if I use my WIn10 phone to access G+ for example, I totally expect limited features and a different user experience than on the laptop. Android users have a far different experience as is well documented in posts on G+. I don't expect that to be different in any other social network platform regardless of who is writing the software (they primarily do not design the hardware). No one company or organization designs all the hardware and software we use. While Apple attempts to do this with devices and operating systems, they do not write all the apps.
If you have a problem with an app, contact the app devs. If you have a problem with using Friendica, ask for help in the support community forum where many people (devs and not devs) work together to solve problems. Good luck!