It's not uncommon for Googlers to move or get moved between projects. I expect that most of the Consumer G+ engineers have already been either moved to the Enterprise G+ team, or moved to another project. Or, in case of disillusioned engineers, left for another company:)
Diana Studer Yonatan left Google quite some time before the announcement, and even longer before that he went to a different team (AI / machine learning, if I recall correctly?).
Filip H.F. Slagter yes but in retrospect it seems he withdrew when he felt his time was right. When he no longer drove the enthusiasm on G+ everything blurred and faded.
John Skeats Diana Studer Filip H.F. Slagter OK everybody. ;-) Please explain who "Yonatan" is/was and where Yonatan is now. Why does this individual matter so much to you? Thanks!
Jeff Diver Yes was one of the most fascinating users to follow on Google+. He could talk (extremely) intelligently on almost any subject you could imagine from ancient cultures and religions to advanced physics -- and everything in between. It was truly a joy to read everything he shared. His contributions to Google+ as Chief Architect were equally impressive.
I had the pleasure of meeting him in person at one of Google's Top Contributor Summits when he joined a discussion between members of the Google+ team and the Google+ TCs. It was obvious that he had both a tremendous grasp of the details of the product and an understanding of everyday Google+ users.
Jeff Diver apart from his content which was fascinating. In that - mind the gap - between - where are all the girls - and Eve stalking, Yonatan was eloquent and vehement in his defence of women and vulnerable people on G+.
Diana Studer It sounds like Google+ got off to a great start with Yonatan!
I hope that newer social media like MeWe do not follow Google+'s bad example with a fabulous start, followed by increasing divergence between users' expectations and their host's profit - driven goals.
Jeff Diver Hosting services like Google+ is extremely expensive, and they become more expensive the larger they are. If the providers of such services don't have business plans with means of generating revenue to cover the expenses, they inevitably have to fold. Hopefully, the services that Google+ users are flocking to have plans to generate enough revenue to survive.
Another problem many might fail is scalability. It is comparatively easy to develop services that look like Google+, but building them in a manner that can grow to support massive numbers of users is much harder. The problem is that it takes much more work initially to build a system that won't collapse with large numbers of users. The infrastructure required to do that is also much more costly. As a result, the temptation exists to take shortcuts that can be fatal down the road. If the initial architecture doesn't allow for the growth, what is known as "large system effects" start to kick in where bottlenecks appear and cripple the performance. Eliminating such a bottleneck can be extremely difficult -- and costly. And when one is relieved, it is extremely common for another to rear its ugly head...and then another, and another, and...
John Skeats Egad! You explain things well. I'll try to remember this the next time I complain about something not working as advertised. Thanks for taking the time to comment in such detail. It helps me understand what's going on around here. Good luck to those who have to deal with "large system effects!" They sound daunting.
Jeff Diver My pleasure. Designing to avoid large system effects is, indeed, very daunting. Google has mastered that and requires that all web-based services they offer be built using an architecture that avoids the large systems effects. That comes at considerable expense, however, in terms of both how long it takes them to develop new services and the cost to provide the service if a large number of users don't materialize or the user base declines, as was the case with the consumer version of Google+.
John Skeats I lived thru that when I started blogging at Blotanical. One man started it, as a hobby alongside a day job and a family. At first it was Camelot. Then the cracks appeared, and he patched them. He tried ads - we whined. He paid a coder to create a robust new site. Money and coder gone - the site twice broken. Eventually he tried to start a fresh version. Still broken. RIP.
I will wait on the sidelines for others to weed out a viable 'replacement' for G+. No way am I going to try EVERYthing and see which is The One to fit me. Meanwhile I use FB and blog and Feedly.
Diana Studer FB was at the top of the list of options I rejected. Twitter came in a relatively close second. I've been exploring options, but haven't found one I really like yet. I wouldn't be surprised if I settle on the blog I started years ago but never did anything with. (I think I shared just one post publicly.)
Diana Studer As one who is trying everything while changing my Collections into blogs, your advice is excellent. I'm learning a lot but not accomplishing much. The value of G+ has clearly shown itself in these post-announcement discussions!
John Skeats Thanks, John! I was pleased to be the third "like" on your blog. Have to agree that "the Presidency itself commanded more respect then!" You wrote that in 2013 and it was prescient.
New comments on this blog are moderated. If you do not have a Google identity, you are welcome to post anonymously. Your comments will appear here after they have been reviewed. Comments with vulgarity will be rejected.
Continue working on Google+ for G Suite customers or move on to new projects.
ReplyDeleteThrown in the pit
ReplyDeleteThey'll leave.
ReplyDeleteIt's not uncommon for Googlers to move or get moved between projects.
ReplyDeleteI expect that most of the Consumer G+ engineers have already been either moved to the Enterprise G+ team, or moved to another project.
Or, in case of disillusioned engineers, left for another company:)
We've had a few off to pastures new posts. Yonatan was the first (and fatal?) loss.
ReplyDeleteboth will have long sabbatical
ReplyDeleteDiana Studer Yonatan left Google quite some time before the announcement, and even longer before that he went to a different team (AI / machine learning, if I recall correctly?).
ReplyDeleteFilip H.F. Slagter yes but in retrospect it seems he withdrew when he felt his time was right. When he no longer drove the enthusiasm on G+ everything blurred and faded.
ReplyDeleteMove on to other projects I suppose.
ReplyDeleteDiana Studer Yonatan moved from Google+ to a far more significant role within Google not because of issues related to Google+.
ReplyDeleteJohn Skeats but, he has since left Google behind.
ReplyDeleteDiana Studer Yes. After the product he moved to was released, he left Google for what he considered to be an even more exciting opportunity.
ReplyDeleteJohn Skeats Diana Studer Filip H.F. Slagter OK everybody. ;-) Please explain who "Yonatan" is/was and where Yonatan is now. Why does this individual matter so much to you? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteJeff Diver Yonatan Zunger was the Chief Architect of Google+/Social, and one of the most prominent faces for Google+ during the early years.
ReplyDeleteHe actually used the platform extensively and wasn't afraid to interact with the other users. During the #nymwars he even helped users fight for more lenient rules when it came to user names.
He now blogs occasionally at https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger and, last I heard, now works for Humu: https://humu.com/2018/04/30/one-year-of-science-machine-learning-and-love/ and https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/on-work-bdf4ff422006
medium.com - Yonatan Zunger – Medium
Jeff Diver Yes was one of the most fascinating users to follow on Google+. He could talk (extremely) intelligently on almost any subject you could imagine from ancient cultures and religions to advanced physics -- and everything in between. It was truly a joy to read everything he shared. His contributions to Google+ as Chief Architect were equally impressive.
ReplyDeleteI had the pleasure of meeting him in person at one of Google's Top Contributor Summits when he joined a discussion between members of the Google+ team and the Google+ TCs. It was obvious that he had both a tremendous grasp of the details of the product and an understanding of everyday Google+ users.
Filip H.F. Slagter John Skeats Thanks for the introduction to Yonatan Zunger and medium.com!
ReplyDeleteJeff Diver apart from his content which was fascinating. In that - mind the gap - between - where are all the girls - and Eve stalking, Yonatan was eloquent and vehement in his defence of women and vulnerable people on G+.
ReplyDeleteDiana Studer It sounds like Google+ got off to a great start with Yonatan!
ReplyDeleteI hope that newer social media like MeWe do not follow Google+'s bad example with a fabulous start, followed by increasing divergence between users' expectations and their host's profit - driven goals.
Jeff Diver Hosting services like Google+ is extremely expensive, and they become more expensive the larger they are. If the providers of such services don't have business plans with means of generating revenue to cover the expenses, they inevitably have to fold. Hopefully, the services that Google+ users are flocking to have plans to generate enough revenue to survive.
ReplyDeleteAnother problem many might fail is scalability. It is comparatively easy to develop services that look like Google+, but building them in a manner that can grow to support massive numbers of users is much harder. The problem is that it takes much more work initially to build a system that won't collapse with large numbers of users. The infrastructure required to do that is also much more costly. As a result, the temptation exists to take shortcuts that can be fatal down the road. If the initial architecture doesn't allow for the growth, what is known as "large system effects" start to kick in where bottlenecks appear and cripple the performance. Eliminating such a bottleneck can be extremely difficult -- and costly. And when one is relieved, it is extremely common for another to rear its ugly head...and then another, and another, and...
John Skeats Egad! You explain things well. I'll try to remember this the next time I complain about something not working as advertised. Thanks for taking the time to comment in such detail. It helps me understand what's going on around here. Good luck to those who have to deal with "large system effects!" They sound daunting.
ReplyDeleteJeff Diver My pleasure. Designing to avoid large system effects is, indeed, very daunting. Google has mastered that and requires that all web-based services they offer be built using an architecture that avoids the large systems effects. That comes at considerable expense, however, in terms of both how long it takes them to develop new services and the cost to provide the service if a large number of users don't materialize or the user base declines, as was the case with the consumer version of Google+.
ReplyDeleteJohn Skeats I lived thru that when I started blogging at Blotanical. One man started it, as a hobby alongside a day job and a family. At first it was Camelot. Then the cracks appeared, and he patched them. He tried ads - we whined. He paid a coder to create a robust new site. Money and coder gone - the site twice broken. Eventually he tried to start a fresh version. Still broken. RIP.
ReplyDeleteI will wait on the sidelines for others to weed out a viable 'replacement' for G+. No way am I going to try EVERYthing and see which is The One to fit me. Meanwhile I use FB and blog and Feedly.
Diana Studer FB was at the top of the list of options I rejected. Twitter came in a relatively close second. I've been exploring options, but haven't found one I really like yet. I wouldn't be surprised if I settle on the blog I started years ago but never did anything with. (I think I shared just one post publicly.)
ReplyDeleteJohn Skeats Hope you'll share your blog with us here before its too late! I have this queasy feeling G+ may fall apart before its scheduled last gasp.
ReplyDeleteDiana Studer As one who is trying everything while changing my Collections into blogs, your advice is excellent. I'm learning a lot but not accomplishing much. The value of G+ has clearly shown itself in these post-announcement discussions!
ReplyDeleteThanks for your interest, Jeff Diver. It doesn't have a clever name or URL: JohnSkeats.com.
ReplyDeleteJohn Skeats Thanks, John! I was pleased to be the third "like" on your blog. Have to agree that "the Presidency itself commanded more respect then!" You wrote that in 2013 and it was prescient.
ReplyDeleteJeff Diver I hadn't looked at that post, but that comment is far more true now even than when I wrote the post.
ReplyDelete