Trying to sort out g+ alternates I'm seeing the following pattern of types of sites. What do you think?
Trying to sort out g+ alternates I'm seeing the following pattern of types of sites. What do you think?
A. Broad spectrum, old - FB, G+
B. Broad spectrum, new -
Centralized - MeWe, Minds, Cake
Federated/Open - Diaspora, Friendica, Hubzilla, Dreamwidth, SocialHome
C. Microblogging - Twitter, Mastodon, Tumblr, Ello
D. Forum - Reddit
E. Photo sharing - Vero (new), Instagram, Pinterest, etc.
F. Messaging - Whatsapp, Kik, etc.
G. Real life community - Nextdoor
A. Broad spectrum, old - FB, G+
B. Broad spectrum, new -
Centralized - MeWe, Minds, Cake
Federated/Open - Diaspora, Friendica, Hubzilla, Dreamwidth, SocialHome
C. Microblogging - Twitter, Mastodon, Tumblr, Ello
D. Forum - Reddit
E. Photo sharing - Vero (new), Instagram, Pinterest, etc.
F. Messaging - Whatsapp, Kik, etc.
G. Real life community - Nextdoor
I will be so sad to lose this, because there is absolutely nothing to replace G+ with at the moment. I have look over several platforms on your list none of them hold up the appeal of G+
ReplyDeleteamy campbell I know, there's really no way to avoid the disruption of a new social network.
ReplyDeleteI’m slowly making peace with the fact that it will take multiple platform types to fill G+’s shoes.
ReplyDeleteDo you remember the excitement when G+ first came out? None of the alternatives has anything like that.
ReplyDeleteI have tried out several options and found I really like an platform called Hubzilla. Unlike many that are limited to a single group, hubzilla allows you to connect to many other services. This allows you to remain connected to your twitter base (still working on Facebook). What I love the most is all my data is stored on a system I own and control. I am able to interact with thought I want to, and block those I don’t. If your intrested in checking it out, head to my hub and look around. If you like what you see (bear in mind I’m still building it out) create an account and stay a while.
ReplyDeletePlease join my community on Hubzilla.
1. Register at any Hubzilla location (they are all inter-connected)
tftsr.com - TFTSR Social
2. Enter my Hubzilla network address into the site searchbar.
tftsr@tftsr.com (or visit https://tftsr.com/channel/tftsr)
3. Click [Connect]
Yeah, no.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to add Dreamwidth to your list. It seems to be closer to G+ both in features and community "feel" than any other social media service that I've found - and since it has been around for quite a while, it's better-tested and more stable, I think. The one serious flaw is the lack of a mobile app. I wish someone would develop one for them!
ReplyDeletePeter Maranci Ah, good one, I was thinking it was different, but its home page reminds me of Ello, i will have to check it out.
ReplyDeleteShawn H Corey yes and no, I've seen a bit of excitement with Mastodon, Diaspora, and MeWe. But the initial seeding of g+ brought so many great people, we'll not see congregated again which is what i think you're feeling. Now it's more like settling the wild west, everybody disburses to start anew.
ReplyDeleteBill Brayman My fear is that there is going to be some victimizing too. Kind of like the coyotes who bring people from Mexico and then kill or enslave them.
ReplyDeleteI fear this more with centralized commercial sites, of course. The dissolution of the Google Plus community is an opportunity for them. And I don't believe that all of them have our interests at heart.
I like Vero but don't know many people on it. I also like Pluspora.
ReplyDeleteFor photos, try Flickr.
ReplyDeleteflickr.com - Flickr
Bill Brayman coming up with a typology of options is proving ... interesting. Current stab at itreflected at #PlexodusWiki:
ReplyDeleteTypes:
https://social.antefriguserat.de/index.php/Platform_Types
Features:
https://social.antefriguserat.de/index.php/Features_and_Capabilities
The "Types" talk page highlights some difficulties / alternate classifications:
https://social.antefriguserat.de/index.php/Talk:Platform_Types
And the Platforms and Sites page reflects (mostly my) general classification:
https://social.antefriguserat.de/index.php/Platforms_and_Sites
2.1 Chat / Messaging
2.2 Microblogs
2.3 Blogging platforms
2.4 Discussion sites
2.5 Wikis
2.6 Media-oriented Sharing
2.7 Social Media sites
2.8 Voice, Video, and Multimedia Chat
2.9 Versioned Collaboration Platforms
2.10 Hubs, dashboards, and unified control
2.11 Unclassified
social.antefriguserat.de - Platform Types - PlexodusWiki
Shawn H Corey Google represented an intrinsically viable community (employees + tech world contacts); putative infrastructure, scaling, development, and abuse mitigation experience; and vast funding resources. A tractable combination.
ReplyDeleteNo present option matches that. The situation is what it is.
And for all Google's strengths, they fell flat. In part due to numerous self-inflicted wounds, in part because the domain is intrinsically difficult.
Bill Brayman Founder cohorts are critical.
ReplyDeleteFacebook followed Usenet's formula: elite unis.
Edward Morbius yeah i was wondering how to define what makes a good broad spectrum. Text/Media sharing and publication and discussion among profiled users is the basic requirement. Communities or interest or other group association is a basic requirement. And I think in the long run, open and standard protocols will determine which sites endure.
ReplyDeleteBill Brayman My long and vaguely poetic "I want a space" essay is actually my attempt at classification I'm happiest with:
ReplyDeletehttps://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/jFmvJdysACd
It turns up a few dimensions.
plus.google.com - A long rambling post with strong, but well-founded, opinions And no, it come...
Speaking of broad spectrum, wow, that essay covers a lot of ground and i'm tuned into the cog sci aspects. I'm still bouncing the thought "Network effects matter, but not as much as the cohort". Which reminds that in the long run the underlying technical social network becomes invisible, as it grows and adapts.
ReplyDeleteBill Brayman I'm a novice in network theory / graph theory space, but they seem critical here.
ReplyDeleteNetworks have topology (which tends to matter less with scale, more below), scale, and depth. Also directionality (directed/nondirected).
There's also the holistic (network-as-thing) and nodal (node-based perspective). Each is valid, but they focus on and tell you different things. Much network-based hype alternates between viewpoints, plays fast and loose, depending on which is most advantageous.
Topologies; null, unary, pair (scale is determinative of topology), chain, loop, star, tree, web, compound. (There are numerous geometric toplologies as well, some with interesting cases.)
In practice, many networks evolve toward dendritic structures, either from a holistic or nodal perspective. These have generally similar characteristics.
With size, from the nodal view, local and proximate structures effectively dominate, as overlays on the whole, though the overall structure can impose itself.
Networks have both benefit and cost functions. The benefits tend to be declining per marginal additional node (Tilly-Odlyzko, refuting Metcalfe), the costs are probabalistically constant. From both nodal and holistic perspectives. Network growth is constrained by the constant cost function.
A hygiene function- can (at a cost itself) reduce the per-node costs, but still only to a constant.
Network defection by high-value nodes leads to a downward positive feedback spiral and rapid network value collapse.
Take with heaps of salt.
Your background?
Edward Morbius lots of gems here, i'm closing down for the night and will ponder on them.
ReplyDeletePeter Maranci Dreamwidth is just LiveJournal reimagined by a mom-and-pop operation after the Russians took over LJ. It's fine, insofar as it goes. But it's also a backward-facing technology.
ReplyDeleteOliver Zimmermann Docs/refs on that would be great.
ReplyDeletePat Kight I've had a modest Dreamwidth presence for some years, that I've recently decided against expanding for reasons (privacy, images capabilities, largely). It's fine so far as it goes, though quite limiting in many respects.
ReplyDeleteThere's a sizeable niche it may fit however.
Oliver Zimmermann I've got far more than enough irons in the fire. Please do not do that again if you wish to participate here.
ReplyDeleteAgain: If you can find a link, or better yet, *add it yourself to the *#PlexodusWiki, that would be gratefully appreciated.
Comment deleted. First and last warning.
https://social.antefriguserat.de/index.php/Platforms_and_Sites
social.antefriguserat.de - Platforms and Sites - PlexodusWiki
I classify soc-med sites as follows:
ReplyDeleteFull blogging
examples: Blogger, WordPress
These site give you control over the look & feel of your blog. You can change the layout and fonts. It has headers, preformatted text, inline images, RSS, etc.
Mini-blogging
examples: G+, Facebook
These sites have unlimited text but restrictions on fonts and paragraphs. Mostly text oriented but can attach images and videos.
Micro-blogging
example: Twitter
Very limit amount of text but can attach images and videos.
Shawn H Corey What about chat? Video (long or short)? Audio? Discussion fora? Planning and events sites? "Gamified" activities with accompishments and leaderboards (say, Fantasy Football)? Collections (Pinterest)? Dating / match sites? Stack Exchange and support sites (with gamification, as it happens)? Group chat (IRC AOL Messenger, Microsoft Messenger, Slack, Discord)? MMPORGs, especially with interactive text and voice messaging? GitHub and Gitlab? Wikis?
ReplyDeleteYour typology seems limited.
Edward Morbius It is. It's about how you post, not how you can organize.
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius Besides, G+ doesn't do all that.
ReplyDeleteShawn H Corey Seems then that you're not talking about what social media are but what your requirements are.
ReplyDeleteWhich is a related though distinct conversation.
Both need to be had.
(And if this seems pedantic ... I suppose it is, but it also matters, and is real-within-reason, and may be relevant to some who are looking at alternatives. The RPG, sports, collectors, and several other communities on G+, for example, haven't had several of the capabilities listed, but might want them. And of the options I've listed, GitHub/GitLab offer all kinds of things I think I'd find useful.)
Busting out of your preconceived and personal notions is difficult.
Edward Morbius I thought we were talking about G+ replacements. Obviously, your definition of replacement differs from mine.
ReplyDeleteBusting out of your preconceived and personal notions is difficult.
I wonder if in 9 months someone can get a G+ replacement up?
ReplyDeleteNot interested in the bells and whistles of other platforms (I'm old skool and just like forum style posting [not reedit, but vBulletin]). Some basic shorthand; some CSS style sheet editing possible (main gripe I have with G+, it's generic white, that's harsh on the eyes); and desktop friendly (hate wasted whitespace).
Either the other social sites follow FB or Twitter style, that's bloatware to me.
Kevyne Kicklighter The basic challenge is to find or create a sustainable transfer platform for extant communities. It does not have to be a full G+ replica, and almost certainly won't be.
ReplyDelete(Google+ is/was a complex and ideosyncratic platform. It's built from many pieces, offers some unique capabilities, and lacks many others.)
I also strongly suspect that the primary choices will be extant rather than novel. That is, relying on some New New Thing likely won't be particularly compelling. (There are a few exceptions.)