Shirō Emiya The point being that MeWe is being discounted as a possible migration site for the Google+ refugees. Because allegedly MeWe's free speech features have made it a hotbed of white supremacist.
Because of this, the suggestion was that it would be better to migrate to Pluspora. Which is part of the Diaspora group.
MeWe might go under overnight the way Gab did. So could any individual diaspora pod or Mastodon pod. But the distributed nature of federated pods makes it more robost overall when it comes to pod loss.
Some pods may be more Nazi-friendly than others. I'm firmly anti-Nazi so I'm not exactly thrilled by that. And the example of what happened to Wil Wheaton on Mastodon illustrates some of the risks associated with that. But overall, I'd rather live with the fact that some pods will do things I disagree with, for the sake of an interoperable system that's more resilient and which offers us users more choices.
Martine Faseur It's not that simple. Gab got booted from its host because the hosting service didn't want to be associated with Nazis. Whether you agree with or disagree with that decision, that's how our current system of capitalism works...we have to live within that reality.
As such, this represents a real risk when considering migrating to a closed walled garden that offers no way to migrate to other pods/platforms. (The Federation/Fediverse options do offer ways to migrate without somehow forcing everyone else you know to also migrate with you.)
Linda Tewes For this community, yes. Don't get me wrong, I don't like racists and white supremacists but this community is about finding an alternative for G+.
I wonder if its ever possible to educate those people... I'd wish they discover and watch movies like MAX for example?! https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290210/
Linda Tewes dont know if my reply went through before, but there will always be people with opposite/abhorant views on any platform. If your looking for a paradise, good luck. People who have tried to wall off their communities need only look to the Neogaf forum to see how that went.
Jörg Walossek "and minds.com"? what do you think about that site? I tried it for a week or so, but it does seem to be gab-like in its membership. I couldn't stand it anymore.
Discord is open source not open-source apparently, so anyone can self-host. As i understand it, Discord do host the main servers so they have opened an app (game) store to help fund that, since their main userbase are gamers.
Clara Listensprechen "Do tell--What's the story about Wil Wheaton???"
Basically, a number of trolling harassers disingenuously reported him, and since he was the focus of "the problem", he was the one kicked out by the admins. The number of reports was about 60. Think about how puny that number is.
Basically, the whole affair revealed problems with Mastodon's way of operating and prompted them to look at how they do things. So hopefully the same exact thing won't happen again on Mastodon. It's an example which demonstrates the sort of risk, when a pod's admin has little or no control over users in other pods.
Cade Johnson i'm still there =) - trying to find&gather non-maga, non-pseudo-science, non-conspiracy people. But there seem few - alot of people with good stuff - arts, science, etc. - but pretty much always mixed with some of the above. I don't know enough about gab to compare. But from the gab Wikipedia article - gab seems to be minds on steroids - or minds the milder brother of gab. I still think, there is potential on minds - groups that focus on specific topics tend to be pretty nice - engagement is okay - technical capabillities of the network are good - the "monetization" model in principle nice for artists and other serious content producers. The network is up for good people to grab. And the payed/boosted stream content in the personal feed is not really much more than Googles "trending" stuff ^^ - and if it keeps the network running - i could live with that. But for now - besides groups - you really have to be thick skinned in the search of channels to add - and with the boosted content...
Andrew Kidoo I think you are wrong there. While Discord uses open source projects, and has a well-documented API, and has released some of its libraries as open source projects, their actual server and client are closed source. You can't self-host a Discord server. If you can, please share the documentation for it with me, as I'd love to do some for testing.
As for the BetterDiscordApp, that seem to be plugins to enhance the Discord desktop Electron app.
Filip H.F. Slagter You're right, i 've been checking since i posted. Client is based on Electron so the .asar files are unpackable. Couple of .dlls in hook. Bunch of .node components also look like binaries. Their support of open-source projects does confuse. I'll have to research this some more, but thanks for clarifying about server and client.
Andrew Kidoo No problem. :) I'm afraid they wouldn't have been able to monetise their service as well as they have if they'd open sourced everything they did...
Andrew Kidoo haven't yet. I've been hearing mixed opinions about it, but it's been on my list though. With a new-born my free time is rather limited though.
Andrew Kidoo Okay, it's too bad that Discord doesn't have self host option, but that's still a cool feature we could look for in other alternatives. The various Federation/Fediverse options do have that, but...setting up a diaspora/Mastodon/etc pod is currently only for serious sysadmins or power users.
In contrast, any slightly technical user could become part of the bittorrent infrastructure just by running a simple to install/maintain client. I wish we had some sort of federated server that was simple to install/maintain like that.
Well, Discord banned nazi servers and could ban them again. It's not like they´re inviting hate speech people to their service. After all the "MeWe is an alt right place" I did a little search. I found the same hate speech people here in g+. And I already know they are on facebook. And people don't say: don't go there, where the Nazis gather. Mewe can let the things go wild for now, but they will not risk becoming another Gab, and had site and services suspended. Before that, they will start moderating more heavily. Because, until now, their aim is not to be a white supremacist haven. I had the impression they don't want that.
Demian Max its everywhere, its not until users demand a change that hosts change. Free speech may be the excuse, but private companies can determine their TOS.
William Johnston "I'm lost is this about when he left twitter on his own?"
The stuff with Mastodon happened after Wil Wheaton left Twitter for Mastodon. But it wasn't unrelated - the trolling harassers had had a grudge against Wil Wheaton on Twitter.
What was the quote... "Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one"
Diaspora and Discord and other things also have their problems - but a) nobody is making money out of looking the other way, and b) tools and services are different. Give an engineer a screwdriver and he'll mend your computer. Give a killer a screwdriver and they'll probably use it for bad things.
Services have a social responsibility that is a bit different to tools (not that tool provides don't also have one).
Thanks! ...and I just read where he left Twitter to go to (of all places) Mastodon where he got bounced just because a bunch of people Reported his posts as he says he didn't break any rules. Mastodon just didn't like the drama, he says....therefore he's ruled out the entire federation. Having been subjected to targeted staged pile-ons myself I can sympathize with online gang-e-rape of that sort, and Trumpsters will do that. I for one Followed him on Twitter and hope to find him again somewhere on some other social cyberspace.
Clara Listensprechen To be honest the whole idea of loosing a job and getting a carrier ruined because some "tweet" is awful, terrible and nauseating. You just express an opinion and a mob of trolls coming after you, getting you fired, ruining your life and you can't even see their real faces - they all hiding behind their fake accounts. I truly started to despise what internet and social media is becoming since it was so different than this in early days and before so called "social media revolution" - thanks to Suckerberg and Jack The Jerker, a gigantic army of trolls ready attack to anyone who go against them or any mainstream "movement"
Clara Listensprechen That's the whole thing. 1st amendment is clear about what citizens can petition the GOVERNMENT about. It says nothing about libel/slander and criminal mischief, that's not protected speech.
Don't like taxes? Fine. Don't like a certain government policy? Fine. Want single-payer healthcare or not? Fine.
What isn't fine is rhetoric and instigating crimes against people. Pretty simple rules to follow in the world.
New comments on this blog are moderated. If you do not have a Google identity, you are welcome to post anonymously. Your comments will appear here after they have been reviewed. Comments with vulgarity will be rejected.
Why would anyone want to patronize a service named after the sister of Mars the god of war?
ReplyDeleteSeems like a pathetically pretentious attempt to be seen as tough.
It's a decent communications tool with private channels.
ReplyDeleteYou know what else they use? Phones.
Shirō Emiya
ReplyDeleteThe point being that MeWe is being discounted as a possible migration site for the Google+ refugees. Because allegedly MeWe's free speech features have made it a hotbed of white supremacist.
Because of this, the suggestion was that it would be better to migrate to Pluspora. Which is part of the Diaspora group.
I think we should keep politics out of this community, Winchell Chung
ReplyDeleteMeWe might go under overnight the way Gab did. So could any individual diaspora pod or Mastodon pod. But the distributed nature of federated pods makes it more robost overall when it comes to pod loss.
ReplyDeleteSome pods may be more Nazi-friendly than others. I'm firmly anti-Nazi so I'm not exactly thrilled by that. And the example of what happened to Wil Wheaton on Mastodon illustrates some of the risks associated with that. But overall, I'd rather live with the fact that some pods will do things I disagree with, for the sake of an interoperable system that's more resilient and which offers us users more choices.
Martine Faseur It's not that simple. Gab got booted from its host because the hosting service didn't want to be associated with Nazis. Whether you agree with or disagree with that decision, that's how our current system of capitalism works...we have to live within that reality.
ReplyDeleteAs such, this represents a real risk when considering migrating to a closed walled garden that offers no way to migrate to other pods/platforms. (The Federation/Fediverse options do offer ways to migrate without somehow forcing everyone else you know to also migrate with you.)
Such a use clearly violates the terms of discord.
ReplyDeleteLinda Tewes For this community, yes. Don't get me wrong, I don't like racists and white supremacists but this community is about finding an alternative for G+.
ReplyDeleteAnton A And politics is part of the equation to evaluate a platform.
ReplyDeleteUgh.
ReplyDeleteAnd minds.com
ReplyDeleteDo tell--What's the story about Wil Wheaton???
ReplyDeleteI wonder if its ever possible to educate those people... I'd wish they discover and watch movies like MAX for example?! https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290210/
ReplyDeleteLinda Tewes Its a service for people to chat and its a good tool. Honestly there's no other system like it.
ReplyDeleteShirō Emiya I agree
ReplyDeleteWilliam Johnston A service company notorious for the people it attracts.
ReplyDeleteLinda Tewes dont know if my reply went through before, but there will always be people with opposite/abhorant views on any platform. If your looking for a paradise, good luck. People who have tried to wall off their communities need only look to the Neogaf forum to see how that went.
ReplyDeleteJörg Walossek "and minds.com"? what do you think about that site? I tried it for a week or so, but it does seem to be gab-like in its membership. I couldn't stand it anymore.
ReplyDeleteDiscord is open source not open-source apparently, so anyone can self-host. As i understand it, Discord do host the main servers so they have opened an app (game) store to help fund that, since their main userbase are gamers.
ReplyDeletegithub.com - Discord
https://discordapp.com/open-source
https://github.com/Jiiks/BetterDiscordApp
Clara Listensprechen "Do tell--What's the story about Wil Wheaton???"
ReplyDeleteBasically, a number of trolling harassers disingenuously reported him, and since he was the focus of "the problem", he was the one kicked out by the admins. The number of reports was about 60. Think about how puny that number is.
Basically, the whole affair revealed problems with Mastodon's way of operating and prompted them to look at how they do things. So hopefully the same exact thing won't happen again on Mastodon. It's an example which demonstrates the sort of risk, when a pod's admin has little or no control over users in other pods.
theverge.com - Twitter rival Mastodon isn’t safe from online mobs either
We are all reverting back to tribes, living in caves, stealing each other's fire.
ReplyDeleteAnything involving three or more people is politics.
ReplyDeleteCade Johnson i'm still there =) - trying to find&gather non-maga, non-pseudo-science, non-conspiracy people. But there seem few - alot of people with good stuff - arts, science, etc. - but pretty much always mixed with some of the above.
ReplyDeleteI don't know enough about gab to compare. But from the gab Wikipedia article - gab seems to be minds on steroids - or minds the milder brother of gab.
I still think, there is potential on minds - groups that focus on specific topics tend to be pretty nice - engagement is okay - technical capabillities of the network are good - the "monetization" model in principle nice for artists and other serious content producers.
The network is up for good people to grab. And the payed/boosted stream content in the personal feed is not really much more than Googles "trending" stuff ^^ - and if it keeps the network running - i could live with that.
But for now - besides groups - you really have to be thick skinned in the search of channels to add - and with the boosted content...
Andrew Kidoo I think you are wrong there. While Discord uses open source projects, and has a well-documented API, and has released some of its libraries as open source projects, their actual server and client are closed source. You can't self-host a Discord server. If you can, please share the documentation for it with me, as I'd love to do some for testing.
ReplyDeleteAs for the BetterDiscordApp, that seem to be plugins to enhance the Discord desktop Electron app.
Filip H.F. Slagter You're right, i 've been checking since i posted. Client is based on Electron so the .asar files are unpackable. Couple of .dlls in hook. Bunch of .node components also look like binaries. Their support of open-source projects does confuse. I'll have to research this some more, but thanks for clarifying about server and client.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Kidoo No problem. :) I'm afraid they wouldn't have been able to monetise their service as well as they have if they'd open sourced everything they did...
ReplyDeleteWorth reading by the way for those with a Discord account: https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9p5uyp/latest_tos_update_revokes_your_right_to_sue/
Did you try riot.im/Matrix?
ReplyDeleteAndrew Kidoo haven't yet. I've been hearing mixed opinions about it, but it's been on my list though. With a new-born my free time is rather limited though.
ReplyDeleteI'm still mostly an old-school IRC junkie. ;)
Filip H.F. Slagter
ReplyDeleteQ: "Isn't betterdiscord just an addon"
A: "No, betterdiscord is an open source standalone electron app with more features, like custom themes"
Ripcord - unofficial native Discord client.
cancel.fm - Ripcord: Desktop Chat Client
Hmm... "We do not support 3rd party clients, and they are not allowed per our ToS/API ToS." (Staff Reply)
(for the less savvy among us including myself) Andrew meant the website about.riot.im - Riot – Riot – open team collaboration a chat oriented page like discord, running on the open network matrix.org
ReplyDeleteLinda Tewes it's an excellent service. I've been using it with my friends and colleagues for a while now, I'm very happy with it.
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius
ReplyDeleteAndrew Kidoo Okay, it's too bad that Discord doesn't have self host option, but that's still a cool feature we could look for in other alternatives. The various Federation/Fediverse options do have that, but...setting up a diaspora/Mastodon/etc pod is currently only for serious sysadmins or power users.
ReplyDeleteIn contrast, any slightly technical user could become part of the bittorrent infrastructure just by running a simple to install/maintain client. I wish we had some sort of federated server that was simple to install/maintain like that.
Linda Tewes like facebook, twitter, G+ and everywhere else.
ReplyDeleteIsaac Kuo I'm lost is this about when he left twitter on his own? https://screenrant.com/wil-wheaton-twitter-leave-protest-deactiday/
ReplyDeleteWell, Discord banned nazi servers and could ban them again. It's not like they´re inviting hate speech people to their service.
ReplyDeleteAfter all the "MeWe is an alt right place" I did a little search. I found the same hate speech people here in g+. And I already know they are on facebook. And people don't say: don't go there, where the Nazis gather.
Mewe can let the things go wild for now, but they will not risk becoming another Gab, and had site and services suspended. Before that, they will start moderating more heavily. Because, until now, their aim is not to be a white supremacist haven. I had the impression they don't want that.
Demian Max its everywhere, its not until users demand a change that hosts change. Free speech may be the excuse, but private companies can determine their TOS.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Johnston "I'm lost is this about when he left twitter on his own?"
ReplyDeleteThe stuff with Mastodon happened after Wil Wheaton left Twitter for Mastodon. But it wasn't unrelated - the trolling harassers had had a grudge against Wil Wheaton on Twitter.
Isaac Kuo Got it.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the quote... "Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one"
ReplyDeleteDiaspora and Discord and other things also have their problems - but a) nobody is making money out of looking the other way, and b) tools and services are different. Give an engineer a screwdriver and he'll mend your computer. Give a killer a screwdriver and they'll probably use it for bad things.
Services have a social responsibility that is a bit different to tools (not that tool provides don't also have one).
William Johnston http://wilwheaton.net/2018/08/the-world-is-a-terrible-place-right-now-and-thats-largely-because-it-is-what-we-make-it/ if you want to hear about why Wil left, from the horse's mouth.
ReplyDeletewilwheaton.net - The world is a terrible place right now, and that’s largely because it is what we make it.
Thanks!
ReplyDelete...and I just read where he left Twitter to go to (of all places) Mastodon where he got bounced just because a bunch of people Reported his posts as he says he didn't break any rules. Mastodon just didn't like the drama, he says....therefore he's ruled out the entire federation. Having been subjected to targeted staged pile-ons myself I can sympathize with online gang-e-rape of that sort, and Trumpsters will do that. I for one Followed him on Twitter and hope to find him again somewhere on some other social cyberspace.
Clara Listensprechen could always just follow his blog via RSS and comment there :)
ReplyDeleterecently saw posts from him on Tumblr
ReplyDeleteThanks!!
ReplyDeleteFilip H.F. Slagter I see Wheaton inspired from Maharaj 😊
ReplyDeleteClara Listensprechen To be honest the whole idea of loosing a job and getting a carrier ruined because some "tweet" is awful, terrible and nauseating. You just express an opinion and a mob of trolls coming after you, getting you fired, ruining your life and you can't even see their real faces - they all hiding behind their fake accounts. I truly started to despise what internet and social media is becoming since it was so different than this in early days and before so called "social media revolution" - thanks to Suckerberg and Jack The Jerker, a gigantic army of trolls ready attack to anyone who go against them or any mainstream "movement"
ReplyDeleteGood point about employment implications. But for us retired folks -- BRING IT!
ReplyDeleteTramslation: Free Speech still exists somewhere! Reeeeeeeeeee
ReplyDeleteFree speech doesn't include libel, slander, conspiracy or hate speech. Thank goodness.
ReplyDeleteClara Listensprechen That's the whole thing. 1st amendment is clear about what citizens can petition the GOVERNMENT about. It says nothing about libel/slander and criminal mischief, that's not protected speech.
ReplyDeleteDon't like taxes? Fine.
Don't like a certain government policy? Fine.
Want single-payer healthcare or not? Fine.
What isn't fine is rhetoric and instigating crimes against people. Pretty simple rules to follow in the world.