How to proceed?
The one thing I will remember most about #GooglePlus is that it is all about the people. I really felt at home. A technically subpar solution might actually help in bonding the right people together. I feel there’s a lesson to be learned here.
We can look at all the other social networks, about all the features they (don't) have and what people are running it. But that hardly matters.
To preserve what we got here, we have to have most people there too. If features are missing, we could work around those. But without the people it is all for naught.
And I do not see any concept yet to get a significant part of the population together to a new place. There are no mechanism to make a joint decision or even the will to make a joint decision.
The core problem we face is a social one, not technical.
(Remark: some cut&paste from Jan Wildeboer as he brought it to the point)
The one thing I will remember most about #GooglePlus is that it is all about the people. I really felt at home. A technically subpar solution might actually help in bonding the right people together. I feel there’s a lesson to be learned here.
We can look at all the other social networks, about all the features they (don't) have and what people are running it. But that hardly matters.
To preserve what we got here, we have to have most people there too. If features are missing, we could work around those. But without the people it is all for naught.
And I do not see any concept yet to get a significant part of the population together to a new place. There are no mechanism to make a joint decision or even the will to make a joint decision.
The core problem we face is a social one, not technical.
(Remark: some cut&paste from Jan Wildeboer as he brought it to the point)
People naturally gravitate towards what interests them. Time to be a pioneer and find the best place for your interests. I am looking for the best alts for a poetry community.
ReplyDeleteMartha Magenta Yes, but that is the trivial part. We need to build a platform (not meant as technical term) for a decision making.
ReplyDeleteIt is not about "the best place for your interests". That will fragment communities into different platforms. It is about "migrating a community of people" or probably even multiple communities of people. I am not willing to follow multiple new social networks to keep the input I got here. So preferably for me my most important communities move to one new solution instead of ten.
ReplyDeleteTwo early main camps seem to be emerging. Migration to Pluspora.com and MeWe.com but there is exploration into many other like Mastadon.
ReplyDeleteScott Jordan exploration is the key
ReplyDeleteAnd there is an even more important point of Time: The news is just out for about a day - 300+ following until 'the end'. Plenty time to calm down and look for the way to go.
ReplyDeletePersonally I did sign up to Mastodon as a temporary measure. I encurage everyone else to do so as well, so we can keep in contact regardless of G+ and exchange possible (final) migration targets no matter where people may move in the mean time.
(Sidenote, so far Hubzilla seams to me the system that may come close to G+ in features ... if that's possible - and it connects to Mastodon and Diaspora)
Martha Magenta Agreed. So far, I am leaning towards Pluspora (Diaspora). It is an open source, fully federated platform that cannot be usurped by corporate interests. Privacy and security reign supreme. That is something that social has sorely lacked. Also, since no one (and everyone owns it), it cannot be shut down my anyone.
ReplyDeleteActually, I see the logical extension of the Diaspora concert to be an open source application where the users install a server/client connected to their own cloud service. Each user is their own pod so their content and settings remains local. A true federated network.
The main problem (IMO) with today's federated networks (and fora from the start) is the strong coupling between the transport mechanism and the front end. Mastodon looks more twittry than diaspora (I'm trying pluspora right now), hubzilla, mewe look like (t.b.s. as I still have to check) and so on.
ReplyDeleteUsenet's mechanism completely decoupled the transport (NNTP) from the reader (software, not wetware) and you could have the features you liked (form of display, blocking, filtering, ...) locally.
Having everything browser-based with a WYSIAYG (What you see is all you'll get) approach with a rather loose coupling at the federation level might be the major part of today's problem.
Jürgen Christoffel I'm open to suggestions for building a new system.
ReplyDeleteI could imagine to invest serious time in design an programming (no, not front end if Ia can avoide it :)). Having a history in large scale communication system design might as well be helpful.
Even more I do love the idea of clear seperation of database / processing / communication environment from client side data-request / -display / -handling
So, whats your plan?
(On a side note, while I very much support your idea, comparing the challenge of a social media system to NNTP is a bit short. NNTP is a public protocoll for fast and equal distribution, completly untouched by privacy and multi-endpoint messaging)
Scott Jordan thanks for the info. Pluspora sounds worth looking into.. I admire those talking of building a new platform. wish I was tecky enough for it.
ReplyDeleteG+ isn't one community; it is many overlapping communities that arose in an environment. As such, it is impossible to have a single-platform solution to the demise of this platform; fragmentation is inevitable because the "glue" holding the communities together - that fostering environment - is going away after the communities have formed identities of their own.
ReplyDeleteWe need people of all kind to support such an endevor, it just needs a gathering to get it going.
ReplyDeleteCade Johnson Agreed. There are so many different ways of using G+ (Public / Private posts, Community posts, Collections, etc.) that's it's unlikely that any other single platform can be a replacement.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, different people will pick out the one that best fits with their own use pattern and/or interests.
Cade Johnson +100 as thats the main point, it's many communities in a common envirionent.
ReplyDeleteI just joined both Pluspora and MeWe, I will check them tomorrow. I will very likely join all of them at the very start, and stick to the one (maybe even two) that provide me the best experience, in regards to contacts and the possibility to learn new things.
ReplyDeleteAnd regardless, I will continue sharing the best I have. Plus I'm nearly done with my publishing platform/WordPress replacement for me, so I hope I have good things to share too.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree - the best part of Google+ is all the different people I've met - a lot of them with different outlooks, interests and backgrounds than me, a place that spurred deep conversations with people you didn't always agree with, but respect for their different opinions. I sincerely hope to find this elsewhere...
ReplyDeleteI joined Pluspora. So far, so good. It feels like the early google Plus. One thing, I don't know how to correct posts. It seems impossible. No community but I couldn't care less. I like the web interface. The android apps is kinda useless.
ReplyDeleteI’m on both MeWe and pluspora now. Figuring them both out :) I like pluspora better but no app.
ReplyDeleteStripes The Tiger take a look at plus.google.com - For those of you going over to pluspora, you can use this mobile app. Just pu... (didn't try it yet, so can't comment on the usability)
ReplyDeleteI think at some point (after some initial exploration that is currently well under way) it could make sense to have a concerted effort to map G+ identities to identities on other platforms.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if everyone would be willing to publicly share that information in a central place (e.g. some big Google Spreadsheet or the like), but I think it would help with two things:
First, of course the obvious - helping people to reconnect.
Second, I think if you could see easily where the majority migrates to, it would help build more critical mass to get more people back together onto a single platform.
A less exposing way for the "critical mass" thing could probably be a very visible poll about the target platform of choice.
ReplyDeleteThere is an actual native app, not just a native wrapper for the mobile web UI.
ReplyDeletef-droid.org - dandelion* | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository
I'm not totally convinced a technical social media solution wouldn't be possible or that such a consensus plan is what's needed, but since you mention it, I have worked a bit on systematic compromise mechanisms. Had some ideas since these posts and the context was political, but you can get the gist.
ReplyDelete50percentofcapacity.blogspot.com - Structured Compromise System
https://50percentofcapacity.blogspot.com/2013/10/scientific-consensus-democracy.html
I think what's going to happen is a natural migration. We won't need to spend energy trying to move people, they're just going to do it themselves.
ReplyDeleteOver the next few months, people will be experimenting with various alternatives.
Soon enough, one or two will become clear leaders, and content producers on G+ will either start replicating their posts to those platforms, or move to them completely (possibly both to keep options open and give more time for the tools to develop).
By the time we get near the shutdown, most producers will have decided on their new platform, and their followers will have joined them.
I doubt everyone will be moved to a single platform by next year. G+ users will probably be in two or three platforms. After another year, the users and producers will firmly have favorites and probably make that they're new home. Maybe that means everyone moves to a single new platform, but I'm betting it will be split among two, possibly three.
One thing Google+ has always had is a huge developer community. There are tons of devs here. If even a tiny fraction of them put effort into Diaspora, the features and aesthetics it lacks could be added. And that is the upside to Diaspora being open source. No other currently viable platform puts that on the table.
ReplyDeleteThe thing people pushing slack / teams / diaspora / jive / whatever never get, is it’s never about the tech. It’s always about the people, the community. “Asgard is a people, not a place”
ReplyDeleteWow, I am surprised about the amount of feedback.Thanks. I'm still parsing.
ReplyDeleteI see several results:
ReplyDeletea) It is the people we see as the major benefit for at G+. But they are not one community but several overlapping. That makes joint decision making very difficult.
b) A lot of people are already looking/scouting/migrating for other social networks. If we one to preserve the community we need to determine what we are looking for (currently everyone is just looking for his/her features). We need to collect properties and features we are looking for. Christian Buggedei has written a good article to as starting point (https://www.orkpiraten.de/blog/online-interaction-types-what-is-there-what-do-i-look-for). We need to complete and structure that.
c) We could define a a way how people communicate other social networks they are using so that we can easily find them if/when they are no longer active here.
This is only a first takes. There several other point rolling through my head but currently cannot form in words.
orkpiraten.de - Online Interaction types — what is there, what do I look for? | Orkpiraten
I opened a new thread at plus.google.com - At https://plus.google.com/u/0/+MartinSeeger/posts/UT9mMDYX9XV I started a d...
ReplyDeleteCarsten Reckord I'm sure that will happen. If I don't see it coming I would do it myself.
ReplyDelete