The thing that bothers me about Diaspora/Pluspora (apart from the lack of editing options) is that they're suggesting starting a pod for every community, at a cost of $25 per month. That's just not practical for most of us!
Also, Peter Maranci, they said diaspora doesn't have the concept of communities, the closest thing to a community being the pod itself (as it is the smallest unit allowing administration and moderation)
I don't think anyone is saying a pod for every community. Just that there might be more pods needed - there are lots of existing underloaded ones too and there are techies who just happen to have spare Xeons lying around in the basement because - well why not 8)
Piero FilippIN and probably with less convoluted protocols - diasporia seems to be using xml wrapped in crypto wrapped in xml wrapped in json. At which point I'm thinking wtf 8)
I have no idea how the software is built, but I am pretty sceptical about these assessment. They will probably need a lot more storage and computational power to facilitate things like search and connections between people, and there is also bulk storage for stuff like images and gifs.
From the post: "Encourage Google Plus Community/Group owners to start their own pods to replicate their Google Plus Communities on Diaspora. Smaller pods of about 1,000 members can be maintained with minimal administrative duties and a budget of roughly $25/month."
Piero FilippIN That has some worrisome implications, if I understand what you're saying. It sounds as if the owner / administrator of the Pod has sole responsibility and capability for dealing with trolls, spammers, and bad actors. If that's the case, I strongly suspect that they would quickly be overwhelmed, if their pod gets heavy usage. Am I mistaken?
Peter Maranci Noone Cares Di Cleverly and David Thiery (on G+ though I'm avoiding tagging them -- they've got enough going on) are hosting a 5500-member pod and know their hosting costs.
I noticed today that Pluspora allows people to upload photos directly from the post. I think storage may soon become an issue and added expense. Do the numbers listed above take that into consideration?
Acobjum One of This Fine Forum's moderators downloaded 25 GB worth of G+ sitemap files and 50,000+ profile homepages to generate an active public-posting user count of ~4-6 million as of January 2015. I share a bed with him and wipe his ass.
That was a minuscule fraction of both Facebook's, and of the (then) 2.2 billion total profiles.
The numbers were validated independently by Stone Temple Consulting.
We each assessed "dark" (non-public) activity based on reported profile view data, andconcluded that this was not vastly larger than the public activity to any meaningful extent. I'll allow it could possibly have doubled or quadrupled the estimates, but it wasn't some 10x, 100x, or more larger, which would be necessary to compare against more successful networks, or even Google's own reported activity levels.
I independently explored other measures of activity mostly using Google Web Search, and still came up with values about 5% of those represented by Facebook at the time (August, 2015).
Recent reports suggest about 105 million MUAs (Wikipedia list of, which given heuristics about online participation (mostly the 90/9/1 rule)
Google have just revealed that 90% of user sessions on G+ are < 5 seconds.
Am I sore on the continued uninformed bloviating on this point? We report, you decide.
Edward Morbius the 90% - 5s Google quoted puzzles me a lot. Mind you, I am a 1 point sample but there is no way i can keep my interaction in g+ below 5s unless I am just checking the notifications - but I only have notification when I post.
Of course, if you count all the people that have a g+ profile without even knowing (thanks google for shoving g+ down people throats) and include 0s as interaction 90% is a very plausible number.
Piero FilippIN It struck me as curious, and possibly too honest. Definitely grabbed my attention.
If the "interaction" is "a red dot has appeared on my browser pane, and it's something from that annoying G+ that I never use, and I just open the Notifications window to dismiss it again", I can see that.
I actually went a few steps further:
* I separated my G+ and other Google activity into different Browser sessions. * Or browsers. * I stopped useing Google Web Search. * I blocked the Notification icon using a CSS stylesheet manager.
When I used +G (and I did, and do, a lot), I used it.
But when I was elsewhere doing other stuff, I really wanted it to go the fuck away, and it wouldn't and didn't. Even as someone who liked the service, this was massively off-putting.
Edward Morbius I am really annoyed myself by notifications on the Google search page. Yes, definitely I can see it being something bothering a lot of people.
However I have most of the notification disabled so I get notified only as response to being active in G+, I don't think inactive people get bothered, and you can easily close your g+ account - so I think that would justify only a small fraction of the 90%/5s.
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The thing that bothers me about Diaspora/Pluspora (apart from the lack of editing options) is that they're suggesting starting a pod for every community, at a cost of $25 per month. That's just not practical for most of us!
ReplyDeleteI just checked on https://podupti.me, diasp.org has almost 90k registered users, and framasphere.org has almost 11k active users.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Peter Maranci, they said diaspora doesn't have the concept of communities, the closest thing to a community being the pod itself (as it is the smallest unit allowing administration and moderation)
I don't think anyone is saying a pod for every community. Just that there might be more pods needed - there are lots of existing underloaded ones too and there are techies who just happen to have spare Xeons lying around in the basement because - well why not 8)
ReplyDeleteAlan Cox I have just thrown away a cluster of 24 servers at work 😒.
ReplyDeleteBut, seriously, we need a social media software based on nosql.
Piero FilippIN and probably with less convoluted protocols - diasporia seems to be using xml wrapped in crypto wrapped in xml wrapped in json. At which point I'm thinking wtf 8)
ReplyDeleteAlan Cox and now I am thinking about pigs in blanket...
ReplyDeleteI have no idea how the software is built, but I am pretty sceptical about these assessment.
ReplyDeleteThey will probably need a lot more storage and computational power to facilitate things like search and connections between people, and there is also bulk storage for stuff like images and gifs.
Alan Cox Here's the suggestion that G+ communities start their own Diaspora pods: https://plus.google.com/+DiCleverly/posts/7en7TSZBC4u
ReplyDeleteplus.google.com - The Migration Plan TGIF! This has been a very crazy week, full of mixed emot...
From the post:
ReplyDelete"Encourage Google Plus Community/Group owners to start their own pods to replicate their Google Plus Communities on Diaspora. Smaller pods of about 1,000 members can be maintained with minimal administrative duties and a budget of roughly $25/month."
I don't know where she got that figure, though.
Peter Maranci yes - because there is no concept of community in diaspora. If you want admin and moderation, you have to own the pod.
ReplyDeleteNoone Cares I am not sure about the software requirements - I know it's written in ruby on rails and of course you need a database
ReplyDeleteEdit: here it is: https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/FAQ_for_pod_maintainers
I anticipated that.
ReplyDeleteAnd detractors claimed Google Plus was a ghost town...
ReplyDeletePiero FilippIN That has some worrisome implications, if I understand what you're saying. It sounds as if the owner / administrator of the Pod has sole responsibility and capability for dealing with trolls, spammers, and bad actors. If that's the case, I strongly suspect that they would quickly be overwhelmed, if their pod gets heavy usage. Am I mistaken?
ReplyDeleteAlready been posted. By me ;-)
ReplyDeletePeter Maranci Noone Cares Di Cleverly and David Thiery (on G+ though I'm avoiding tagging them -- they've got enough going on) are hosting a 5500-member pod and know their hosting costs.
ReplyDeleteThat's where the monthly $$ comes from.
I noticed today that Pluspora allows people to upload photos directly from the post. I think storage may soon become an issue and added expense. Do the numbers listed above take that into consideration?
ReplyDeleteAcobjum One of This Fine Forum's moderators downloaded 25 GB worth of G+ sitemap files and 50,000+ profile homepages to generate an active public-posting user count of ~4-6 million as of January 2015. I share a bed with him and wipe his ass.
ReplyDeleteThat was a minuscule fraction of both Facebook's, and of the (then) 2.2 billion total profiles.
The numbers were validated independently by Stone Temple Consulting.
We each assessed "dark" (non-public) activity based on reported profile view data, andconcluded that this was not vastly larger than the public activity to any meaningful extent. I'll allow it could possibly have doubled or quadrupled the estimates, but it wasn't some 10x, 100x, or more larger, which would be necessary to compare against more successful networks, or even Google's own reported activity levels.
I independently explored other measures of activity mostly using Google Web Search, and still came up with values about 5% of those represented by Facebook at the time (August, 2015).
Recent reports suggest about 105 million MUAs (Wikipedia list of, which given heuristics about online participation (mostly the 90/9/1 rule)
Google have just revealed that 90% of user sessions on G+ are < 5 seconds.
Am I sore on the continued uninformed bloviating on this point? We report, you decide.
https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/naya9wqdemiovuvwvoyquq?x
https://www.stonetemple.com/real-numbers-for-the-activity-on-google-plus/
https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3hp41w/tracking_the_conversation_fp_global_100_thinkers/
ello.co - Estimating User Activity: 4-6 m - dredmorbius | ello
Edward Morbius the 90% - 5s Google quoted puzzles me a lot. Mind you, I am a 1 point sample but there is no way i can keep my interaction in g+ below 5s unless I am just checking the notifications - but I only have notification when I post.
ReplyDeleteOf course, if you count all the people that have a g+ profile without even knowing (thanks google for shoving g+ down people throats) and include 0s as interaction 90% is a very plausible number.
Piero FilippIN That sounds like bots to me - the one-hitter accounts that just blast out a single spam post, lather, rinse, and repeat.
ReplyDeletePiero FilippIN It struck me as curious, and possibly too honest. Definitely grabbed my attention.
ReplyDeleteIf the "interaction" is "a red dot has appeared on my browser pane, and it's something from that annoying G+ that I never use, and I just open the Notifications window to dismiss it again", I can see that.
I actually went a few steps further:
* I separated my G+ and other Google activity into different Browser sessions.
* Or browsers.
* I stopped useing Google Web Search.
* I blocked the Notification icon using a CSS stylesheet manager.
When I used +G (and I did, and do, a lot), I used it.
But when I was elsewhere doing other stuff, I really wanted it to go the fuck away, and it wouldn't and didn't. Even as someone who liked the service, this was massively off-putting.
Most Android user have a Google+ account they rarely use and might very well start the app when a notification arrives and leave quickly.
ReplyDeleteMartin Krischik You are probably correct.
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius I am really annoyed myself by notifications on the Google search page. Yes, definitely I can see it being something bothering a lot of people.
ReplyDeleteHowever I have most of the notification disabled so I get notified only as response to being active in G+, I don't think inactive people get bothered, and you can easily close your g+ account - so I think that would justify only a small fraction of the 90%/5s.
Piero FilippIN The red eye just served as a constant reminder that Google was watching everything I did on Google.
ReplyDeleteSo I started doing things off Google.
G+ excepted.
66.media.tumblr.com
ReplyDeletePiero FilippIN I too have most Google+ notifiaction disable.
ReplyDeleteBut you need to be savy user to do that. Or know that you can do that.
Pushing notifications as default is a common mistakes most apps do.
I'm sorry Piero, I'm afraid I can't let you do that.
ReplyDelete