Discussion thread for Data Takeout Uses survey
This is a free-for-all-brawl thread, have at it.
The actual survey is the linked post.
See:
https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/aGiWsnYgrhw
This is a free-for-all-brawl thread, have at it.
The actual survey is the linked post.
See:
https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/aGiWsnYgrhw
I honestly can't be bothered with it. Let them delete it when they kill the service. I can reproduce the same stuff elsewhere should I wish to.
ReplyDeleteIt's my stuff so I believe I have the 'rights' to keep it with me. I'd be mad if I had an amnesia and the doctor tells me "don't bother to recover your memory".
ReplyDeleteBTW I've been using WordPress for a long time. Whenever I switch hosting I did export the data from old hosting but I don't always import them into the new hosting. But it's still nice to have your stuff with you and having the possibility to look back at all the things you've posted before.
DO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE Reminder: the survey is the linked post. This is a space to discuss that, or others answers, or anything else that's not specifically a response.
ReplyDeleteI'll be looking for answers on that post though. In case you hit the wrong target here.
I don’t plan on taking out much. I see social media content primarily as ephemera. You’re not supposed to save everything or use a social media app as a tool to save anything important.
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius How many layers do we have to drill down to reach your survey from here?
ReplyDeleteLinda Tewes I disagree. It's not about saving things to social media. I shitpost all the time but when people react with comments/likes that's when opinions and ideas grows. Those are what important to me.
ReplyDeleteDO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE Do you “save” every conversation and smart ass remark you have made in real life? For that matter, do you “shit post” in real life?
ReplyDeleteDo you measure relevance of an idea by plussed/likes/comments?
Linda Tewes I would if I could, so?
ReplyDeleteDO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE You’re a digital hoarder.
ReplyDeleteLinda Tewes I'm fine with that.
ReplyDeleteDO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE I’m sure you’re also fine with other people paying the cost of your addiction. Cyberspace isn’t free. Someone is paying for you to save virtually everything. Freeloading digital hoarder.
ReplyDeleteLinda Tewes That's why I want to take those out so that someone no longer have to keep it on my behalf but hey, why are so against someone wanting to archive what they have posted online?
ReplyDeleteDO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE If the data was critical they should have had a data recovery plan from the beginning. They should have had a means of backing up their photos, artwork, and writing elsewhere. Google+ Takeout is a retro fitted solution for people who didn’t think ahead.
ReplyDeleteShit posts and plusses are trivial.
Linda Tewes That's Google's problem. I'm not here to debate about recovery plan or backup. I believe the thread here is about what to do with the data, assuming the takeout was successful.
ReplyDeleteLet's try to keep the discussion civil, and about what you plan on using it for, and whether or not the Takeout in its current form allows you to do that.
ReplyDeleteWe all use the internet differently, and even in the offline life derive value and enjoyment from different aspects of life. There's no need for personal attacks.
Back on topic:
I plan on sifting through my public posts to find the discussions about timeless topics, and republishing them within my own domain, and using them to spark new discussions.
I'll also use those and private posts to reflect on how my opinion about things has changed, and how my use of the internet has developed, whether for good or bad.
I also think that keeping an archive of these things are important to see what kept a specific part of (online) society busy. Throughout history humanity has left so many permanent marks that allowed historians to deduct development of societies. It is sad to think that the majority of our online discussions would be ephemeral without archival services such as internet.org. What we might consider a shitpost now, future historians might find some other value in.
One might find me a digital hoarder too, but I find joy and reflection in occasionally looking back on my interactions with people. For instance by reading through backups of (IRC) chat logs that I've personally been keeping for over a decade. It reminds me of periods of personal distress, but also that I've eventually pulled through. Maybe more importantly, it reminds me of mistakes I've made and lessons to learn from it.
Unfortunately with how Takeout does not contain a full log of comments on topics, and with how Community exports are far from portable with their complete lack of actual data and relevant metadata (only links to a dying platform, no actual posts and comments), the Takeout archives only fulfill part of that target.
Filip H.F. Slagter You said that better than I could have myself. Adding some more I'd like to have the possibility to look back at my mistakes in my old posts so not to repeat them again, and I learned English a lot from social media than I did from my school. I'm not exactly going to repost them again though. I'm fine with just hosting them in a local WordPress installation if possible.
ReplyDeleteDO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE if it's just for local review only, why specifically a WordPress install? How is the HTML version provided by Takeout different from your needs in that case?
ReplyDeleteFilip H.F. Slagter I prefer how things are remapped to resemble actual social media posts. At the same time I could use the content to populate a development installation instead of using the old lorem ipsum posts.
ReplyDeleteWhen the G+ sunset was announced, I tried out takeout for the first time, And when saving it I discovered that I still had the Google Buzz takeout in HTML format. It's only posts with their comments and not my comments on other people's posts. The weird thing is reading about stuff that is now 8 years old and thinking, hey, wasn't that the year before last?
ReplyDeleteDon't throw anything away.
Linda Tewes DO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE Please keep it civil, as Filip said, thanks.
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius Excuse me? My last comment was 4 hours ago. Please note Mr. Upside Down name had the last word.
ReplyDeleteFor myself: a key benefit of the personal subreddit I've maintained for over five years now has been that I can quickly call up posts I've written with some consideration via subreddit-restricted Search. G+ has had, off and on, the ability to search you own posts, and quite frankly, the present search capabilities are the best the site has ever had. That's only one of many ways in which G+ is mostly at its best, technically, now, and something that makes the shutdown all that more painful.
ReplyDeleteAnd I reference those posts often, sometimes for my own use, sometimes to share with others.
For the past few years I've also been keeping a personal log of ideas and literature, largely on index cards. The interesting thing here is in getting a sense of what the physicality of data is. A single card (I prefer the 4x6 size) holds up to about 500 characters of text (about the size of a Mastodon post, and there are similarities with that I've written about). Ten cards can be laid out for viewing pretty easily (and more with a bit of shuffling of desk space).
One hundred can be flipped through quickly in my hands, and I can go through larger stacks of 500 or so fairly quickly. A storage box will hold 1500 cards, and several of those now occupy my study. The data survive most encounters (though tea is a constant looming threat), don't require a monthly service charge or vendor relationship, the raw materials are reasonably cheap (though expensive on a per-GB basis), and the encoding and decoding processes are thankfully independent of technological impedance. There's something of a culture and history to index cards as well, and you might be starting to thing I could write on this at length. I have. I won't here....
The broader point is that people's wants, needs, and uses for information vary. And judging others without a full appreciation of those strikes me as petty. Particularly for text, where storage is overwhelmingly too cheap to meter, in the sense that it simply isn't economical to charge individually, or even in substantial aggregates of population for it. Part of what makes the business case of offering such services complicated.
(This isn't quite an answer to my own survey question, though it also somewhat is. I'm trying to avoid commenting on that post, whose discovery is left as a qualifying requirement for responses.)
DO ИOꓕ DꓵbΓICⱯꓕE There are whole host of options for personal data storage and reference that you might look at. Depending on your personal tech familiarity and levels, I'd strongly recommend looking at Emacs OrgMode, VimWiki, any of the static site generators (Jekyll, Pelican, Hugo, etc.), ikiwiki, piwiki, etc.
ReplyDeleteI've often resorted to a shell script on Linux or Mac systems that will open a date-stamped file and start entry into it, in a specified directory.
An email account to yourself (can be on a local system so it never transits anything else) is also useful. Subject is whatever you're talking about, the material is automatically timestamped, and you get a mailbox that can be searched, sorted, filtered, etc. I still prefer mutt for this sort of usage over virtually anything else, though you could of course use any email client, or set up an account on a third-party service similarly.
(Mutt is faster than Gmail for most filter and search operations, on mailboxes of up to tens of thousands, if not more, records. There are tools for indexing these for even greater performance.)
Filip H.F. Slagter On the Historical View: while it's true that our view of the past is shaped by records, it's also true that we're absolutely glutted in records presently. For the past decade or two, half of all recorded information has been created in the past two years. And most of that is of write-once, read-never nature.
ReplyDeleteMy sense is that enough of our current logorrhea will survive to occupy whatever historians may survive the present era for quite some time. They might even find fruit among the dreck.
On text storage: the entire US Library of Congress contains 40 million books. PDF-encoded (as text) at roughly 5 MB each, that's 250 TB of storage. I believe that's < $2,000 presently, raw, though fully-provisioned bumps the price up a bit.
ReplyDeleteTraditional publishing is ~300k books/year, with "nontraditional" (self-published) books, the number's about 1-1.5 million.
The 300k value's been stable since the 1960s, if not 1950s.
Sources: US LoC, LoC annual reports, Bowker ISBN data.
Linda Tewes I'm not camping out on threads, and report what I see when I see it. I'd also appreciate a modicum of respect, thanks.
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius You apparently don’t research before reprimanding either. You piled on instead.
ReplyDeleteBtw, I muted Mr Upside Down name before Filip said anything an hour later.
Michael K Johnson said I don't think that takeout includes my comments on other people's posts, which is a serious omission since a substantial amount of the content I have posted on G+ has been on other people's posts.
ReplyDeleteYour comments on other people's posts are available in Takeout.G+Stream.ActivityLog. What you get is a single .html or .json file containing all your comments. Each comment is your text merged with the OP's text. This is less than ideal!
Linda Tewes Please keep the discussion productive, thank you.
ReplyDeleteJohn Lewis: ping.
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius I'm quoting you here "This is a free-for-all-brawl thread, have at it."
ReplyDeleteJohn Lewis You can quote me all you like. Just don't take my word for it.
ReplyDeleteAlways funny trying and follow a thread where one person is in your block list.
ReplyDeleteAt the risk of hijacking the discussion, but maybe also worth discussing: in which situations would you object to your comments on topics being included in other users' Takeout archives?
ReplyDeleteAnd the converse: do you expect others' comments on your posts to be included in your archives?
And even broader: in which situations do you object to your posts and comments in a community to be included in a Community Takeout? And the converse: do you expect your Community Takeout to include all those?
Note to Edward Morbius (and other mods):
I feel this is quite related to the expectations of how the Takeout will / is expected to be used, hence why I'm including the question here.
If you feel it's too offtopic, feel free to remove it without warning, and either start a new topic yourself with it, or poke me and I'll start a new one myself. I've backed up the text.
Filip H.F. Slagter No, I think it's a viable and important question.
ReplyDeleteShould other people be able to archive my comments... also, if that person leaves and their comments are removed, do I have a right to have access to them even if they left or blocked me, because they were part of a shared conversation?
Filip H.F. Slagter Fair question, though likely worth a post in its own right.
ReplyDeleteFilip H.F. Slagter I take a maximalist position.
ReplyDelete- You can have my comments on your posts
- I want your comments on my posts
- The Owner-Moderator of a community can have all my posts and comments in that community.
There might be a constraint that if any of those are restricted visibility, then only those with read access to the current UI should get the related content. But I think the 3 rules still work. eg. If you commented on my post, I must have had read access to your comment. Even if the community was private, the owner must have had read access to my posts in that community.
Julian Bond Weird thing is, as discussed elsewhere, that neither Google's ToS nor Privacy Policy address at all third party rights to data, so far as I can tell.
ReplyDeleteContrast Wikipedia's CC-BY-SA 3.0 license.
What grinds my gears is misattribution of content -- someone taking my stuff and claiming it as their own. Droit d'auteur under EU copyright law.
I'd be less concerned with the content being taken and attributed to an unnamed or anonymous contributor, generally.
droit d’auteur* 😏
ReplyDelete(droit = right
d' = of
auteur = author)
Filip H.F. Slagter Thanks. FiXato'd.
ReplyDeleteAlan Bland Based on your response, would you want the ability to export only a specific Collection or set of Collections?
ReplyDeleteEdward Morbius Yes. Exporting the posts for one specific collection or being able to select a set of collections to export would be exactly what I need. Note that in the current Takeout, you can select "Collections" but that only exports the metadata for all your collections, not the posts.
ReplyDeleteTakeout.collections is worse than useless. So much so it's actually kind of insulting.
ReplyDelete"permalink": "https://plus.google.com/collection/EK_YX",
"followerCount": "10739",
"postCount": "33",
"coverPhotoUrl": "https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nh4FCq2m-2CouzBizZuyQ7vPtKWrUnW-VDANeuzUuwWy_pFZ4etvKqUADzkw3Tth8BtD3UG57O_QOaAMpbGZOvcPww"
And that's it. And the permalink will 404 after Sunset.
The posts however will be in Takeout.Google+Stream.Posts, though you'll have to link them to your Takeout.Google+Collections metadata through the Post.collectionAcl data.
ReplyDelete