Considering how diverse the people are here on G+, I'm not surprised there's no consensus. It's like graduating high school; all your friends are going their separate ways. 😢
Just as there was no consensus to end up on G+ as opposed to FB (or in addition) - no single answer.
Everyone's needs and experience is different. But among "old-timers" here there has been expressed a fairly clear direction people are heading (IMM): diaspora* pods (including "Pluspora" with many G+ vets) and also MeWe (with caveats for/by many), and various blogging platforms. My sum suggestion has been to check them out - yesterday or today - and see which seems most comfortable. Make plans to close up the house here, make forwarding messages, and compare notes with those you want to stay connected with if it's mostly been "here". Read these threads! Good luck!
Unfortunately, this community was started, and the plans of action were created, when Google told us we had until August. Obviously, this gave us a lot more time to dissect, plan, perhaps even create a new place.
Now we are in full triage mode. If you want the one-off answer, either MeWe (not my recommendation) or Diaspora seem to be the two spots the majority are moving to. Others are listed on the left and there are loads of choices.
First, however, back up your data now. When you decide where you are going, do NOT delete your account, others who like you will need to know how to find you. Instead, put up a post on your account saying where you went to.
I find this all somewhat depressing. I have been looking at this community for some months hoping that some consensus would appear but it seems not.
I thank everyone for their advice about grabbing my data but I will probably just let it die. For me this was a place to be without all the touchy - feeley emotional stuff and political despotism of faceboink.
I will miss the feeds I subscribe to.
Like many of you I feel let down by Google but we were all boarding "the flight of the underdog" anyway.
British Bob I'm sorry that a consensus could not be reached. Our original intent was to get to that stage, but the timeline was based on the original dates Google gave for shutdown. August would have given us enough time to do a proper investigation and get the community to agree to a solution.
Two jumps by Google later and we simply don't have enough time to create consensus. We have found some things out and Morbius has a robust ability to record and collect data, so you can find loads of information on his wiki. That might be enough for you to make a choice.
If there are one or two factors that matter to you (ease of use, public projects, privately owned, open source, etc) then we might be able to narrow the list for you.
Andrew Hatchett strangely (and perhaps with unicorns) I did. Just as a group of 45,000 football supporters can come to a consensus the manager deserves the sack.
Are there 45,000 in this community?
Two months out and much wringing of hands.
Not being harsh but it seems to be discussion for the sake of discussion. Lots of peeps posting woe is us is how it appears to me.
British Bob Again, my view, as a moderator of this Community: G+MM is not here to form consensus, it is here to inform and guide.
If you want to find consensus among your circles and communities, find it if it exists, or help create it.
There are too many people and groups to come up with some set of total agreement. The attempt to do so would be crippling. And quite frankly, my view of the Open Web is that you don't want "everybody on one platform". That's too fragile and dangerous and produces other problems to boot.
I personallyVERY strongly encourage open standards and tools for keeping in touch across a range of platforms, sites, services, and other offerings. RSS/Atom newsfeeds are a key element. Email still works (though it's long in the tooth). The Federated / Fediverse and other open protocols are exceptionally promising.
And if that's not your cuppa, there are the existing surveillance capitalism monopolist propaganda, disinformation, and hate-spewing mainstream sites such as Facebook and Twitter, which have a very large following and social graph.
You need to be talking among your circles, or figuring out who else here you plan on following closely, and either get to where they are or be where they will follow.
Edward Morbius Here here! It's clear that among the (yes, very large) number of impacted "citizens of Google +" no two people have the same exact wants, needs, preferences, and comfort zones. Some thrive on change, some are "spread out" already, others stuck in dread or mourning, all of us living with uncertainty. I agree there would have been no point (or success) in trying to get the entire universe of G+ ers to come to consensus about "what's best" (for all of the people all of the time?). And then we could all get in line for the train to the promised land....
Thanks for the smile, btw - so true!: "[T]here are the existing surveillance capitalism monopolist propaganda, disinformation, and hate-spewing mainstream sites such as Facebook and Twitter". Of course, many "like them". And many don't. Fortunately, like people, there are all types and flavors. Choice can feel overwhelming, and with "social" phenomena many really do look for consensus, or at least good info about an impending major event.
"Context and perspective." Choice is good - but can be double-edged if it involves making what feels like a long-term commitment.
I'd like like to take a moment to thank everyone who took the time to share their opinions with me. The comments seem just as confused as the situation with some saying "yes, that was the purpose," and some saying "no it's not."
So.... it seems there isn't even a consensus on reaching one!
British Bob You've had direct responses from the community owner and a moderator. You might choose to give those some weight.
Also, clearly, if there is no consensus on even reaching a consensus, then there can be no consensus.
As a practical matter:
1. Reaching consensus would take more time and effort than is available. Even the existing path strains resources.
2. For this Community to pick specific winners, it would lose the credibility of impartiality. We've turned down compensation and consulting offers on that basis. John, the owner, has declined even to stat his own future plans on that basis. (Mine have been made known.)
3. There really isn't a one-size-fits-al solution, and quite likely there shouldn't be. The Net is large, peoples' needs diverse.
So, really: You are going to have to think about what your goals and interests, as well as limitations and deal-killers are.
And I'm specifically inviting you to state those right here.
But there is not, and will not be, a consensus, as both a pragmatic reality and community policy.
Edward Morbius Apart from keeping informed from a wide variety of sources that gather in one place, there is no real goal. Interests are wide and varied from Indian food to tech.
The deal breakers are the touchy-feeley emotions, politics and trailer park feuds of Facebook.
So..... I've accepted your invitation and it may have been useful.
It has caused me to think about how much will change for me when G+ closes down.
Unlike many I see on a day to day basis I am not a slave to social media (checking my phone 15 times a day for updates.)
What I will lose is my morning eclectic feed of news, information and reviews and as result become less "informed."
I think also that this may be the straw that breaks the camel's back as far as Google are concerned.
I sense inside myself a loss of faith with their practice of starting projects and then arbitrarily abandoning them and their customer (because that's what we are whether we believe it or not.)
And this may be the start of a backlash. If I cant trust them on this..... How long before "Drive" or "Docs" goes away also? Inside my fairly wide (real life) social circle I am fairly influential.
I have a rep as the guy who can help with most technical problems (Just 8 hours ago I was advising someone on wireless mesh. )
I can already see that I am unlikely to be advising anyone to join a future Google project. Not because "Google is evil," but because "Google abandons."
Yeah..... Sounds like a jilted lover but their directory service and Picasa come to mind as examples.
So thank you for your invitation and I sincerely hope that this reply is worthy of it.
British Bob Fair enough, and that's quite similar to my own views, down to the utter loss of trust in Google's capacity to commit.
I'm also looking for a good set of eclectic-but-useful feeds, exchange with intelligent people, some fun, and a place to post or share my own writing.
I want data independence and autonomy.
I'd like something fairly reliable, and with reasonably good security and privacy assurances.
... oh, wait, I wrote this one already. Take a look at this, which outlines my own goals/desires. It doesn't quite point at a solution, but it seems to ask the right questions:
Edward Morbius I will be most interested to take a long look at your link later (I have a heavy day.) The interesting point to me in the reply was about privacy assurances. Let’s face it Google has never been a place for privacy but I tend to view it that as long as you are aware implicitly of the deal that you are doing with the devil then make your deal.
British Bob Going the federated route means putting trust in numerous site admins. Or running your own site.
I really don't know how that compares to mainstream commercial services, though in most of those cases, we know that there is no real privacy, though the sites tend to lie through their teeth on that point.
This thoughtful and sane discussion proves G+ is a good place for social media. I don't see serene and serious discussions in Facebook and alike, maybe it's because they are just "packed"
New comments on this blog are moderated. If you do not have a Google identity, you are welcome to post anonymously. Your comments will appear here after they have been reviewed. Comments with vulgarity will be rejected.
Considering how diverse the people are here on G+, I'm not surprised there's no consensus. It's like graduating high school; all your friends are going their separate ways. 😢
ReplyDeletePlusPora seems to be catching a lot of us. I've also started a Twitter account as well, to track the people who are moving there.
ReplyDeleteJust as there was no consensus to end up on G+ as opposed to FB (or in addition) - no single answer.
ReplyDeleteEveryone's needs and experience is different. But among "old-timers" here there has been expressed a fairly clear direction people are heading (IMM): diaspora* pods (including "Pluspora" with many G+ vets) and also MeWe (with caveats for/by many), and various blogging platforms. My sum suggestion has been to check them out - yesterday or today - and see which seems most comfortable. Make plans to close up the house here, make forwarding messages, and compare notes with those you want to stay connected with if it's mostly been "here". Read these threads! Good luck!
i tried Minds.com., its just a smokescreen for the next tyrannical Facebook, for few assholes to become Billionaires.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, this community was started, and the plans of action were created, when Google told us we had until August. Obviously, this gave us a lot more time to dissect, plan, perhaps even create a new place.
ReplyDeleteNow we are in full triage mode. If you want the one-off answer, either MeWe (not my recommendation) or Diaspora seem to be the two spots the majority are moving to. Others are listed on the left and there are loads of choices.
First, however, back up your data now. When you decide where you are going, do NOT delete your account, others who like you will need to know how to find you. Instead, put up a post on your account saying where you went to.
British Bob The premise of G+MM is not to create or dictate a concensus, but to help individuals and groups make their own informed decisions.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I'll be posting a set of strong suggestions in the near future.
I find this all somewhat depressing. I have been looking at this community for some months hoping that some consensus would appear but it seems not.
ReplyDeleteI thank everyone for their advice about grabbing my data but I will probably just let it die. For me this was a place to be without all the touchy - feeley emotional stuff and political despotism of faceboink.
I will miss the feeds I subscribe to.
Like many of you I feel let down by Google but we were all boarding "the flight of the underdog" anyway.
British Bob
ReplyDeleteConsidering the number of G+ users, did you really expect a consensus? That was never likely to happen.
British Bob I'm sorry that a consensus could not be reached. Our original intent was to get to that stage, but the timeline was based on the original dates Google gave for shutdown. August would have given us enough time to do a proper investigation and get the community to agree to a solution.
ReplyDeleteTwo jumps by Google later and we simply don't have enough time to create consensus. We have found some things out and Morbius has a robust ability to record and collect data, so you can find loads of information on his wiki. That might be enough for you to make a choice.
If there are one or two factors that matter to you (ease of use, public projects, privately owned, open source, etc) then we might be able to narrow the list for you.
Andrew Hatchett strangely (and perhaps with unicorns) I did. Just as a group of 45,000 football supporters can come to a consensus the manager deserves the sack.
ReplyDeleteAre there 45,000 in this community?
Two months out and much wringing of hands.
Not being harsh but it seems to be discussion for the sake of discussion. Lots of peeps posting woe is us is how it appears to me.
British Bob Again, my view, as a moderator of this Community: G+MM is not here to form consensus, it is here to inform and guide.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to find consensus among your circles and communities, find it if it exists, or help create it.
There are too many people and groups to come up with some set of total agreement. The attempt to do so would be crippling. And quite frankly, my view of the Open Web is that you don't want "everybody on one platform". That's too fragile and dangerous and produces other problems to boot.
I personally VERY strongly encourage open standards and tools for keeping in touch across a range of platforms, sites, services, and other offerings. RSS/Atom newsfeeds are a key element. Email still works (though it's long in the tooth). The Federated / Fediverse and other open protocols are exceptionally promising.
And if that's not your cuppa, there are the existing surveillance capitalism monopolist propaganda, disinformation, and hate-spewing mainstream sites such as Facebook and Twitter, which have a very large following and social graph.
You need to be talking among your circles, or figuring out who else here you plan on following closely, and either get to where they are or be where they will follow.
There is no consensus. That is not our purpose.
Edward Morbius Here here! It's clear that among the (yes, very large) number of impacted "citizens of Google +" no two people have the same exact wants, needs, preferences, and comfort zones. Some thrive on change, some are "spread out" already, others stuck in dread or mourning, all of us living with uncertainty. I agree there would have been no point (or success) in trying to get the entire universe of G+ ers to come to consensus about "what's best" (for all of the people all of the time?). And then we could all get in line for the train to the promised land....
ReplyDeleteThanks for the smile, btw - so true!:
"[T]here are the existing surveillance capitalism monopolist propaganda, disinformation, and hate-spewing mainstream sites such as Facebook and Twitter". Of course, many "like them". And many don't. Fortunately, like people, there are all types and flavors. Choice can feel overwhelming, and with "social" phenomena many really do look for consensus, or at least good info about an impending major event.
"Context and perspective." Choice is good - but can be double-edged if it involves making what feels like a long-term commitment.
I'd like like to take a moment to thank everyone who took the time to share their opinions with me. The comments seem just as confused as the situation with some saying "yes, that was the purpose," and some saying "no it's not."
ReplyDeleteSo.... it seems there isn't even a consensus on reaching one!
Such a shame.
Once again, thank you everyone.
British Bob You've had direct responses from the community owner and a moderator. You might choose to give those some weight.
ReplyDeleteAlso, clearly, if there is no consensus on even reaching a consensus, then there can be no consensus.
As a practical matter:
1. Reaching consensus would take more time and effort than is available. Even the existing path strains resources.
2. For this Community to pick specific winners, it would lose the credibility of impartiality. We've turned down compensation and consulting offers on that basis. John, the owner, has declined even to stat his own future plans on that basis. (Mine have been made known.)
3. There really isn't a one-size-fits-al solution, and quite likely there shouldn't be. The Net is large, peoples' needs diverse.
So, really: You are going to have to think about what your goals and interests, as well as limitations and deal-killers are.
And I'm specifically inviting you to state those right here.
But there is not, and will not be, a consensus, as both a pragmatic reality and community policy.
Edward Morbius Apart from keeping informed from a wide variety of sources that gather in one place, there is no real goal. Interests are wide and varied from Indian food to tech.
ReplyDeleteThe deal breakers are the touchy-feeley emotions, politics and trailer park feuds of Facebook.
So..... I've accepted your invitation and it may have been useful.
It has caused me to think about how much will change for me when G+ closes down.
Unlike many I see on a day to day basis I am not a slave to social media (checking my phone 15 times a day for updates.)
What I will lose is my morning eclectic feed of news, information and reviews and as result become less "informed."
I think also that this may be the straw that breaks the camel's back as far as Google are concerned.
I sense inside myself a loss of faith with their practice of starting projects and then arbitrarily abandoning them and their customer (because that's what we are whether we believe it or not.)
And this may be the start of a backlash. If I cant trust them on this..... How long before "Drive" or "Docs" goes away also? Inside my fairly wide (real life) social circle I am fairly influential.
I have a rep as the guy who can help with most technical problems (Just 8 hours ago I was advising someone on wireless mesh. )
I can already see that I am unlikely to be advising anyone to join a future Google project. Not because "Google is evil," but because "Google abandons."
Yeah..... Sounds like a jilted lover but their directory service and Picasa come to mind as examples.
So thank you for your invitation and I sincerely hope that this reply is worthy of it.
British Bob Fair enough, and that's quite similar to my own views, down to the utter loss of trust in Google's capacity to commit.
ReplyDeleteI'm also looking for a good set of eclectic-but-useful feeds, exchange with intelligent people, some fun, and a place to post or share my own writing.
I want data independence and autonomy.
I'd like something fairly reliable, and with reasonably good security and privacy assurances.
... oh, wait, I wrote this one already. Take a look at this, which outlines my own goals/desires. It doesn't quite point at a solution, but it seems to ask the right questions:
plus.google.com - A long rambling post with strong, but well-founded, opinions And no, it come...
British Bob ... and what that comes down to is a strong emphasis on federated and self-controlled systems.
ReplyDeleteBlogging via GitLab, the Pelican static site generator, and Git.
Microblogging on Mastodon.
Social on Diaspora or Friendica/Hubzilla.
Lots of RSS feeds.
Additional syndication possible.
Edward Morbius I will be most interested to take a long look at your link later (I have a heavy day.)
ReplyDeleteThe interesting point to me in the reply was about privacy assurances.
Let’s face it Google has never been a place for privacy but I tend to view it that as long as you are aware implicitly of the deal that you are doing with the devil then make your deal.
British Bob Going the federated route means putting trust in numerous site admins. Or running your own site.
ReplyDeleteI really don't know how that compares to mainstream commercial services, though in most of those cases, we know that there is no real privacy, though the sites tend to lie through their teeth on that point.
Edward Morbius And I thought I had a problem with a unicorn! You have a farm of them!:)
ReplyDeleteThis thoughtful and sane discussion proves G+ is a good place for social media. I don't see serene and serious discussions in Facebook and alike, maybe it's because they are just "packed"
ReplyDeleteJon Alcibar
ReplyDeleteI've always said G+ was for serious conversation and FB was for driveby commenting :)